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Worldcoin Banned in Kenya

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Re: Worldcoin Banned in Kenya

#11

Post by JohnFen »

ALittleLight wrote: post #7
JohnFen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's exploitative because they're deliberately targeting disadvantaged people who have a high enough need for cash that they're more willing to sell sensitive biometric data without questioning things more deeply. It's a pretty slimy move, at the very least.

That's absurd - you can't buy and sell from people who are too poor? "Sorry Kenyan, I know you'd like to make 50 dollars (or whatever it is) by selling your biometric data, but JohnFen/Kenya government/Western Media thinks you're too poor to get any money for voluntary transactions."

> you can't buy and sell from people who are too poor?

That's not my stance at all. My stance is that if you're leveraging an extreme power differential to get people to do things that they would not otherwise be willing to do, you're being coercive.

Worldcoin and these people are not engaging in a free exchange as equals.

Re: Worldcoin Banned in Kenya

#12

Post by bestcoder69 »

ALittleLight wrote: post #7
JohnFen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's exploitative because they're deliberately targeting disadvantaged people who have a high enough need for cash that they're more willing to sell sensitive biometric data without questioning things more deeply. It's a pretty slimy move, at the very least.

That's absurd - you can't buy and sell from people who are too poor? "Sorry Kenyan, I know you'd like to make 50 dollars (or whatever it is) by selling your biometric data, but JohnFen/Kenya government/Western Media thinks you're too poor to get any money for voluntary transactions."

transaction=voluntary=good is an extreme libertarian position, eg bumfights. I’m not saying you support bumfights, but your argument does. Or child labor etc. If there’s more nuance you gotta say it.

Re: Worldcoin Banned in Kenya

#13

Post by ALittleLight »

JohnFen wrote: post #11
ALittleLight wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's absurd - you can't buy and sell from people who are too poor? "Sorry Kenyan, I know you'd like to make 50 dollars (or whatever it is) by selling your biometric data, but JohnFen/Kenya government/Western Media thinks you're too poor to get any money for voluntary transactions."

> you can't buy and sell from people who are too poor? That's not my stance at all. My stance is that if you're leveraging an extreme power differential to get people to do things that they would not otherwise be willing to do, you're being coercive. Worldcoin and these people are not engaging in a free exchange as equals.

Worldcoin is rich and the average Kenyan is poor - relative to one another. By your logic Worldcoin can't fairly engage with Kenyans - as I summarized your position above "You can't buy and sell from people who are too poor."

If you think that Worldcoin needs to pay some much larger amount, such that some richer population would be equally willing to sell their biometrics, then you are again just reiterating the same idea that it's wrong to do business with poor people. If Worldcoin had to pay what would make the average San Franciscan willing - why would Worldcoin travel all the way to Kenya? They would focus on closer and more familiar populations instead. In reality, they go to Kenya because it's better economics - they get more signups per dollar, and Kenyans are willing to sell biometrics at a lower price.

This line of thinking is a perverse insistence that poor people stay poor because you think their wages are too low. It is morally repellent - you insert yourself in the voluntary exchange of consenting adults in order to prevent them from doing what they want, and it is economically irrational.

I would sell a hash of my retinal scan to Worldcoin. I checked if there was an orb near me - alas, not. Please, tell me, why should I be allowed to make this trade but the average Kenyan should not? Or, tell me why you know better than I do what the hash of my retina scan is worth.

Re: Worldcoin Banned in Kenya

#14

Post by ALittleLight »

bestcoder69 wrote: post #12
ALittleLight wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's absurd - you can't buy and sell from people who are too poor? "Sorry Kenyan, I know you'd like to make 50 dollars (or whatever it is) by selling your biometric data, but JohnFen/Kenya government/Western Media thinks you're too poor to get any money for voluntary transactions."

transaction=voluntary=good is an extreme libertarian position, eg bumfights. I’m not saying you support bumfights, but your argument does. Or child labor etc. If there’s more nuance you gotta say it.

Homeless people are often mentally ill or addicted to drugs. Exploiting conditions that render people unable to meaningfully consent is not what we are talking about here. The average Kenyan is not experiencing any such difficulty. Do you think poor people should be allowed to box? To film their fights or post it online?

(To be clear, I do think so)

Re: Worldcoin Banned in Kenya

#15

Post by bestcoder69 »

ALittleLight wrote: post #14
bestcoder69 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

transaction=voluntary=good is an extreme libertarian position, eg bumfights. I’m not saying you support bumfights, but your argument does. Or child labor etc. If there’s more nuance you gotta say it.

Homeless people are often mentally ill or addicted to drugs. Exploiting conditions that render people unable to meaningfully consent is not what we are talking about here. The average Kenyan is not experiencing any such difficulty. Do you think poor people should be allowed to box? To film their fights or post it online? (To be clear, I do think so)

Whether someone is “unable to meaningfully consent” is unknowable, so I don’t put any stock it in at all in these kind of decisions.

I’d say that deciding that question isn’t that important (as described, fine, don’t ban WorldStarHipHop). Rather, I’d zoom out and ask whether a society where poor people brawl for income is a healthy one, and maybe think of some alternatives to do that would be better.

Also were these Kenyans all screened for mental illness, or is this a crack a few eggs situation?

Re: Worldcoin Banned in Kenya

#16

Post by Tijdreiziger »

JohnFen wrote: post #11
ALittleLight wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's absurd - you can't buy and sell from people who are too poor? "Sorry Kenyan, I know you'd like to make 50 dollars (or whatever it is) by selling your biometric data, but JohnFen/Kenya government/Western Media thinks you're too poor to get any money for voluntary transactions."

> you can't buy and sell from people who are too poor? That's not my stance at all. My stance is that if you're leveraging an extreme power differential to get people to do things that they would not otherwise be willing to do, you're being coercive. Worldcoin and these people are not engaging in a free exchange as equals.

> if you're leveraging an extreme power differential to get people to do things that they would not otherwise be willing to do, you're being coercive.

I abhor for-profit retina scanning as much as the next guy, but that's like, most of what employment is.

Re: Worldcoin Banned in Kenya

#17

Post by jychang »

Tijdreiziger wrote: post #16
JohnFen wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can't buy and sell from people who are too poor? That's not my stance at all. My stance is that if you're leveraging an extreme power differential to get people to do things that they would not otherwise be willing to do, you're being coercive. Worldcoin and these people are not engaging in a free exchange as equals.

> if you're leveraging an extreme power differential to get people to do things that they would not otherwise be willing to do, you're being coercive. I abhor for-profit retina scanning as much as the next guy, but that's like, most of what employment is.

Seems like a problem with employment then.
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