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x86 is dead, long live x86

engineering.mercari.com

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Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#11

Post by edgyquant »

jimmaswell wrote: post #7
retskrad wrote: post #4

x86 lives on desktop now. Windows, Intel, AMD and Nvidia have more or less thrown in the white flag and given the laptop market to Apple.

Based on what? I would never buy an Apple laptop and no one I know has one either. The Windows "gaming laptop" I got a few years ago for game dev is perfectly adequate and has features missing from Macbooks: - ethernet port - hdmi port - multiple usb A and C ports - solid keyboard Same for my work laptop, again Windows/x86 and no one I know with a work laptop is supplied a Mac either.

We live in different worlds. All engineers I know have Macs and the ones that don’t have Linux. The one guy on my team who uses windows is a constant problem as he has to find work arounds for every process we have/service we build.

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#12

Post by scarface_74 »

jimmaswell wrote: post #7
retskrad wrote: post #4

x86 lives on desktop now. Windows, Intel, AMD and Nvidia have more or less thrown in the white flag and given the laptop market to Apple.

Based on what? I would never buy an Apple laptop and no one I know has one either. The Windows "gaming laptop" I got a few years ago for game dev is perfectly adequate and has features missing from Macbooks: - ethernet port - hdmi port - multiple usb A and C ports - solid keyboard Same for my work laptop, again Windows/x86 and no one I know with a work laptop is supplied a Mac either.

> Based on what? I would never buy an Apple laptop and no one I know has one either

Yes because no one that you know buys an Apple laptop that must mean that Apple isn’t selling any…

> Same for my work laptop, again Windows/x86 and no one I know with a work laptop is supplied a Mac either.

I find the lack of self awareness…amusing.

Because no one you know uses a Mac laptop, that must mean no one uses one.

Well my anecdote from working at the second largest employer in the US that the vast majority of technical people prefer Macs even though they can choose Macs or Windows.

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#13

Post by jeffbee »

harpratap wrote: post #8
jeffbee wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E2 is just extremely old. E2 are a mixed fleet that contain CPUs as old as Haswell. Haswell launched over 10 years ago. It makes sense that you get a better bang for your buck from using something that isn't gravely obsolete. You should also keep that in mind when benchmarking E2, since it's a grab-bag of CPUs you need to control for the actual CPU type, either by specifying the minimum one you require or assuming th…

That is true. But in cloud our hands our tied, we cannot really switch from one one generation to another so easily. GCP has so far never launched a new chip while keeping the price same or lower. We did same cost/perf analysis on newer generation chips like Ice Lake from Intel and even Milan from AMD in the form of N2D, but both are quiet expensive for the performance uplift they provide. The unique thing about T2D…

I get what you mean. For the record, here's a GCP engineer holding forth on price/performance ratios who also concludes that T2D is optimal. https://medium.com/google-cloud/google-cloud-platform-cpu-pe...

ETA: Since you are using Go and targeting a specific modern CPU, you may also get a measurable benefit from setting GOAMD64=v3, so the go compiler generates code using AVX2, BMI2, LZCNT, etc.

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#14

Post by oaiey »

retskrad wrote: post #4

x86 lives on desktop now. Windows, Intel, AMD and Nvidia have more or less thrown in the white flag and given the laptop market to Apple.

Sounds like a bubble thing. Sure x86 may go (as will arm one day), but there is a very solid, healthy and huge Laptop market outside than Apple.

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#15

Post by jsheard »

mobilio wrote: post #3

I've recently switch from VPS with Intel to physical server with latest AMD Zen4. Single thread performance blow my mind with scores like 4000. Without change a single line of code = performance was 10x than before.

4000 in what benchmark? I don't doubt that bare-metal Zen4 is fast but that number doesn't mean anything by itself.

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#16

Post by glimshe »

jimmaswell wrote: post #7
retskrad wrote: post #4

x86 lives on desktop now. Windows, Intel, AMD and Nvidia have more or less thrown in the white flag and given the laptop market to Apple.

Based on what? I would never buy an Apple laptop and no one I know has one either. The Windows "gaming laptop" I got a few years ago for game dev is perfectly adequate and has features missing from Macbooks: - ethernet port - hdmi port - multiple usb A and C ports - solid keyboard Same for my work laptop, again Windows/x86 and no one I know with a work laptop is supplied a Mac either.

I would never buy an Apple laptop. I have one for work and I hate it. Linux and Windows are by far more productive for me, so all I need to do is keep getting better PC laptops. While Mac hardware does have a slight edge on cost/benefit at that price point, macOS is just too cumbersome for my needs.

EDIT: It's funny to see this downvoted. I'm literally speaking of my particular use case and needs! Are there people who believe Apples are better in all scenarios?

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#17

Post by papichulo2023 »

mobilio wrote: post #3

I've recently switch from VPS with Intel to physical server with latest AMD Zen4. Single thread performance blow my mind with scores like 4000. Without change a single line of code = performance was 10x than before.

Arent VPS cpus usually clocked pretty low? Also if you are sharing the cpu with another intensive service, the cache will miss a lot.

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#18

Post by redwall_hp »

edgyquant wrote: post #11
jimmaswell wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on what? I would never buy an Apple laptop and no one I know has one either. The Windows "gaming laptop" I got a few years ago for game dev is perfectly adequate and has features missing from Macbooks: - ethernet port - hdmi port - multiple usb A and C ports - solid keyboard Same for my work laptop, again Windows/x86 and no one I know with a work laptop is supplied a Mac either.

We live in different worlds. All engineers I know have Macs and the ones that don’t have Linux. The one guy on my team who uses windows is a constant problem as he has to find work arounds for every process we have/service we build.

Yep. I work in an entire office of engineers with only Macs (mostly ARM ones now) and I only have a Mac at home, besides a very old ThinkPad running Ubuntu. (Aside from FFXIV on MacOS, I've moved any gaming to PS5 and Switch.)

I haven't actively used Windows since 2008. It's such an obnoxious OS to use, and I have never seen a Windows laptop with quality in the same zip code as a Mac. There's always a terrible touch pad, keyboard flex, plasticky trash fit and finish, mediocre display or something that just ruins the whole thing.

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#19

Post by arp242 »

scarface_74 wrote: post #12
jimmaswell wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on what? I would never buy an Apple laptop and no one I know has one either. The Windows "gaming laptop" I got a few years ago for game dev is perfectly adequate and has features missing from Macbooks: - ethernet port - hdmi port - multiple usb A and C ports - solid keyboard Same for my work laptop, again Windows/x86 and no one I know with a work laptop is supplied a Mac either.

> Based on what? I would never buy an Apple laptop and no one I know has one either Yes because no one that you know buys an Apple laptop that must mean that Apple isn’t selling any… > Same for my work laptop, again Windows/x86 and no one I know with a work laptop is supplied a Mac either. I find the lack of self awareness…amusing. Because no one you know uses a Mac laptop, that must mean no one uses one. Well my ane…

"Apple isn't selling any laptops" wasn't what was said. The original claim was x86 has "thrown in the white flag" and that Apple dominates the laptop market, which is a pretty ridiculous claim since x86 is still the vast majority of laptop sales and Windows is still the dominant laptop OS.

Re: x86 is dead, long live x86

#20

Post by selectodude »

redwall_hp wrote: post #18
edgyquant wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in different worlds. All engineers I know have Macs and the ones that don’t have Linux. The one guy on my team who uses windows is a constant problem as he has to find work arounds for every process we have/service we build.

Yep. I work in an entire office of engineers with only Macs (mostly ARM ones now) and I only have a Mac at home, besides a very old ThinkPad running Ubuntu. (Aside from FFXIV on MacOS, I've moved any gaming to PS5 and Switch.) I haven't actively used Windows since 2008. It's such an obnoxious OS to use, and I have never seen a Windows laptop with quality in the same zip code as a Mac. There's always a terrible touch…

I just received a brand new Thinkpad from work. I don't even mind Windows but holy crap is that thing an absolute chore to use. I don't understand how this is still an issue while Apple has been putting out what amounts to the perfect laptop for like 10+ years now.
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