Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022) • Hacker News Board

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#11

Post by IntToDouble » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 9:18 PM UTC

honkycat wrote: post #5

i killed my RSI that I had for YEARS by seriously over-hauling my workspace. I also went to occupational therapists who helped me figure out what I was doing wrong and how to fix it. I use a moonlander split keyboard so my shoulders are properly spread out instead of hunched together, and my wrists and arms can fall at a more reasonable angle. I use a "tall" ergo mouse. This was a huge upgrade from my small mouse and…

+1 on weight lifting.

Issues began when I stopped lifting. Since then, they flare/fade according to the 90 day trend line of gym attendance.

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#12

Post by aodonnell2536 » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 9:20 PM UTC

honkycat wrote: post #5

i killed my RSI that I had for YEARS by seriously over-hauling my workspace. I also went to occupational therapists who helped me figure out what I was doing wrong and how to fix it. I use a moonlander split keyboard so my shoulders are properly spread out instead of hunched together, and my wrists and arms can fall at a more reasonable angle. I use a "tall" ergo mouse. This was a huge upgrade from my small mouse and…

I’ve been strongly considering a split keyboard recently, and have been looking at (and loving the ergonomics of) the Moonlander, but struggle to reason paying $365 when every keyboard I’ve bought in the past has been <$80. Do you by chance know of any cheaper alternatives with similar ergonomics?

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#13

Post by agumonkey » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 9:21 PM UTC

Here's a joke I often tell:

I use emacs daily, my hands and fingers adjusted to the old bindings somehow. So whenever I used Eclipse and Java, I get serious RSI in less than 24H (the kind of acute/deep/radiating pain you don't want to ever feel)

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#14

Post by susam » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 9:24 PM UTC

zitterbewegung wrote: post #10

susam wrote: post #8

> in particular, due to use of emacs I use Emacs too full-time (at work as well as at home). I use the 'ctrl' key on both sides of the keyboard. For example, if I'm typing C-a (i.e., ctrl+a), I hold down 'ctrl' with the right little finger and 'a' with the left little finger. Similarly, if I'm typing C-k, I hold down 'ctrl' with the left little finger and 'k' with the right middle finger. I touch type and any touch t…

Remapping control to caps lock also could be used to avoid RSI.

The article at https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/MovingTheCtrlKey says that some users get RSI by remapping 'ctrl' to 'caps lock'. Again, it is all anecdotal. There is no evidence or reference presented there. Only a vague claim at the top of the article.

But I won't be surprised if it indeed turns out to be true. When 'ctrl' is mapped to 'caps lock', we use only the left hand to to type 'ctrl'. This leads to bad typing practices like contorting your left hand to type both 'ctrl' (now mapped to 'caps lock') and 'x' with the same hand.

I believe it is best to balance out the 'ctrl' usage (or for that matter, any modifier key) across both hands. Many people map both their 'caps lock' and 'enter' key to behave like 'ctrl'. On its own 'enter' behaves like 'enter' but when combined with another key, it behaves like 'ctrl'. I think that's a great idea. But an even better idea is to have 'ctrl' key on both sides of the keyboard at a convenient locations.

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#15

Post by jamesgreenleaf » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 9:26 PM UTC

I'm convinced that using the "mac layout" for your main modifier key (Cmd) is a huge improvement when it comes to comfort and reducing strain. If you're on another OS, you should remap Control to your Alt key. I've done this on my Windows & Linux machines, and it takes a few days to get used to, but it's just night and day. Pinky weak, thumb strong.

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#16

Post by m00x » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 9:32 PM UTC

zitterbewegung wrote: post #10

susam wrote: post #8

> in particular, due to use of emacs I use Emacs too full-time (at work as well as at home). I use the 'ctrl' key on both sides of the keyboard. For example, if I'm typing C-a (i.e., ctrl+a), I hold down 'ctrl' with the right little finger and 'a' with the left little finger. Similarly, if I'm typing C-k, I hold down 'ctrl' with the left little finger and 'k' with the right middle finger. I touch type and any touch t…

Remapping control to caps lock also could be used to avoid RSI.

I got an RSI even with this. Better to just avoid using emacs altogether unfortunately :(

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#17

Post by pulvinar » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 9:38 PM UTC

honkycat wrote: post #5

i killed my RSI that I had for YEARS by seriously over-hauling my workspace. I also went to occupational therapists who helped me figure out what I was doing wrong and how to fix it. I use a moonlander split keyboard so my shoulders are properly spread out instead of hunched together, and my wrists and arms can fall at a more reasonable angle. I use a "tall" ergo mouse. This was a huge upgrade from my small mouse and…

I originally learned to type the "proper" way with wrists bent, but my hands have long since found a more comfortable angle (no bend) and it hasn't slowed my typing. Never did figure out what was so proper about keeping your hands aligned with the keyboard, since keys aren't in neat vertical rows anyway.

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#18

Post by tinix » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 9:39 PM UTC

jamesgreenleaf wrote: post #15

I'm convinced that using the "mac layout" for your main modifier key (Cmd) is a huge improvement when it comes to comfort and reducing strain. If you're on another OS, you should remap Control to your Alt key. I've done this on my Windows & Linux machines, and it takes a few days to get used to, but it's just night and day. Pinky weak, thumb strong.

Macbook keyboard gave me RSI, it's like smashing your fingers on marble.

Using mechanical switches and caps lock for control is better for me, but indeed, stretching for frequent modifiers is bad.

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#19

Post by Optimal_Persona » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 9:47 PM UTC

I first came across Xah Lee's site years ago while trying to mitigate some mild RSI. At that time I saw he was an RSI sufferer and hardcore Emacs user. Over the years when I see an article by devs with chronic RSI, all I will say is that they are rarely written by vim users. I know key mappings can be changed but I don't think the default chording key combos of Emacs are ergonomic. I believe Richard Stallman is another victim of this.

BTW no RSI issues since I switched to using only laptop keyboards with quality trackpads and ensure straight relaxed wrists, and I type a lot faster as well. IME mice are terrible.

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#20

Post by projektfu » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 9:49 PM UTC

I looked into remapping Ctrl once and the article mentioned instead using the left side of the left hand to type Ctrl instead of pinky. This only works on a keyboard with good key height, but it works wonders. Unfortunately, it's hard to find a laptop with a tall, mechanical keyboard.