Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Open Letter from Security Researchers in Relation to the Online Safety Bill [pdf]

haddadi.github.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 164 posts

Re: Open Letter from Security Researchers in Relation to the Online Safety Bill [pdf]

#11

Post by PrimeMcFly »

xeyownt wrote: post #7
PrimeMcFly wrote: post #3

I think it's inevitable that at some point some legislation like the OSB will pass in most western countries. It's going to drive the people who have the know how underground, and anyone engaging in protecting their privacy will be considered a criminal. We're already creeping toward that IMO.

I don't see why it is inevitable. In fact, I very see the opposite. Passing this kind of legislation will kill e-commerce for sure, so it will never happen.

E-commerce will still happen, just with lessened security.

Re: Open Letter from Security Researchers in Relation to the Online Safety Bill [pdf]

#12

Post by mandmandam »

These researchers are using logic and reason to fight against a bill that seeks to amass power and control.

And while I appreciate the level tone... I do wish they'd at least wink at the real reasons this is being put forward. I get why they don't, to maintain respectability and deniability etc.

But look at the sheer hypocrisy on display here. I kinda wish they'd take the gloves off and say, hey - Look at Prince Andrew, Ghislaine Maxwell, Jimmy Savile and Gary Glitter, and God Knows how many others.

Look at how those horrifying scumbags walked around free, for decades, as if authorities didn't know full fine well what they were doing. Look at how they were not just ignored, but protected by the establishment that now wants a backdoor on every private communication.

Re: Open Letter from Security Researchers in Relation to the Online Safety Bill [pdf]

#13

Post by blitzar »

miohtama wrote: post #8
blitzar wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's inevitable that at some point some legislation like the OSB will pass in most western countries. It's going to be no different at all from the current situation.

What would happen in the ideal world: - All online messenger providers (Whatsapp, Signal, Telegram) e.g. withdraw from the UK market. Meta and Google gave a taste for this after Canadian link law. - UK needs to come up with a crappy homebrew messenger ecosystem no one uses. Maybe a messenger.gov.uk? - People download applications with privacy and sideload them to their mobile phones, keep going with their business as…

- UK parliament members who proposed the bill will look like idiots, but get re-elected anyway

Some things never change.

Re: Open Letter from Security Researchers in Relation to the Online Safety Bill [pdf]

#14

Post by b112 »

miohtama wrote: post #8
blitzar wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's inevitable that at some point some legislation like the OSB will pass in most western countries. It's going to be no different at all from the current situation.

What would happen in the ideal world: - All online messenger providers (Whatsapp, Signal, Telegram) e.g. withdraw from the UK market. Meta and Google gave a taste for this after Canadian link law. - UK needs to come up with a crappy homebrew messenger ecosystem no one uses. Maybe a messenger.gov.uk? - People download applications with privacy and sideload them to their mobile phones, keep going with their business as…

UK parliament members who proposed the bill will look like idiots, not getting re-elected

No one will lose re-election over a technical or scientific issue such as this. 99.9% of the public can't understand the position, the discussion, and will only listen to what fluff websites, and the parties tell them.

Now, is any party going to take up a "soft on pedophiles!" position? Because that's how it will be played...

Re: Open Letter from Security Researchers in Relation to the Online Safety Bill [pdf]

#15

Post by blitzar »

b112 wrote: post #14
miohtama wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would happen in the ideal world: - All online messenger providers (Whatsapp, Signal, Telegram) e.g. withdraw from the UK market. Meta and Google gave a taste for this after Canadian link law. - UK needs to come up with a crappy homebrew messenger ecosystem no one uses. Maybe a messenger.gov.uk? - People download applications with privacy and sideload them to their mobile phones, keep going with their business as…

UK parliament members who proposed the bill will look like idiots, not getting re-elected No one will lose re-election over a technical or scientific issue such as this. 99.9% of the public can't understand the position, the discussion, and will only listen to what fluff websites, and the parties tell them. Now, is any party going to take up a "soft on pedophiles!" position? Because that's how it will be played...

Haw haw the honourable member is AGAINST ONLINE SAFETY. Its a bit like trying to vote against the Patriot Act.

Re: Open Letter from Security Researchers in Relation to the Online Safety Bill [pdf]

#16

Post by pjc50 »

blitzar wrote: post #9
xeyownt wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why it is inevitable. In fact, I very see the opposite. Passing this kind of legislation will kill e-commerce for sure, so it will never happen.

kill; e-commerce, in store payment terminals, online banking, all https, email, biometric passports etc. It would be a return to the pre internet era, so probably is the will of the people and on form for the UK. I kind of hope they pass it then realise what it actually means.

It's not going to be enforced that way even if that's what the text says. Although it might get spicy if one of the megacorps decides the legal risk is real and withdraws from the UK market.

Re: Open Letter from Security Researchers in Relation to the Online Safety Bill [pdf]

#17

Post by pjc50 »

mandmandam wrote: post #12

These researchers are using logic and reason to fight against a bill that seeks to amass power and control. And while I appreciate the level tone... I do wish they'd at least wink at the real reasons this is being put forward. I get why they don't, to maintain respectability and deniability etc. But look at the sheer hypocrisy on display here. I kinda wish they'd take the gloves off and say, hey - Look at Prince Andr…

It's very difficult trying to do rational opposition to policy in the UK these days because .. that's simply not how it works any more. At best you have to work the kremlinology of different factions to get an idea killed or promoted. But you have to remember that it's a closed news ecosystem, you simply can't get a word in unless you're already part of that media/party group of people.

The plan to bring back "Imperial" measurements still isn't dead, for example.

Liz Truss, worst and shortest PM in living memory, is back after a few months as if nothing had happened. Why? It's not because she has any good ideas; it's because she's a vessel for a particular faction of bad ideas.

Re: Open Letter from Security Researchers in Relation to the Online Safety Bill [pdf]

#18

Post by sneak »

PrimeMcFly wrote: post #11
xeyownt wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why it is inevitable. In fact, I very see the opposite. Passing this kind of legislation will kill e-commerce for sure, so it will never happen.

E-commerce will still happen, just with lessened security.

Or non-lessened security, and selective enforcement. Of course this is for "terrorists", not businesses.

Re: Open Letter from Security Researchers in Relation to the Online Safety Bill [pdf]

#19

Post by sneak »

miohtama wrote: post #8
blitzar wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's inevitable that at some point some legislation like the OSB will pass in most western countries. It's going to be no different at all from the current situation.

What would happen in the ideal world: - All online messenger providers (Whatsapp, Signal, Telegram) e.g. withdraw from the UK market. Meta and Google gave a taste for this after Canadian link law. - UK needs to come up with a crappy homebrew messenger ecosystem no one uses. Maybe a messenger.gov.uk? - People download applications with privacy and sideload them to their mobile phones, keep going with their business as…

Closing the sideloading hole on Android then becomes the next step.

It's already a nonissue on the most popular device.

Eventually the sale of devices that don't include cryptographic controls to prevent terrorists from misusing them to evade terrorist surveillance will be outlawed.

Re: Open Letter from Security Researchers in Relation to the Online Safety Bill [pdf]

#20

Post by blitzar »

pjc50 wrote: post #16
blitzar wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

kill; e-commerce, in store payment terminals, online banking, all https, email, biometric passports etc. It would be a return to the pre internet era, so probably is the will of the people and on form for the UK. I kind of hope they pass it then realise what it actually means.

It's not going to be enforced that way even if that's what the text says. Although it might get spicy if one of the megacorps decides the legal risk is real and withdraws from the UK market.

If it is implemented as per the legislation, the UK would need to be disconnected from the global internet, and most activity economic or otherwise would cease overnight. I should really retract my original position, things in the UK would be very different.

Honestly, it kind of needs to happen properly, otherwise people will never learn. Allowing these half baked pieces of legislation to pass and then not implementing them except for some edge case allows the idiots who write it and promote it to claim they were right all along.

Post reply on HN