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Codespaces but open-source, client-only, and unopinionated

devpod.sh

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Re: Codespaces but open-source, client-only, and unopinionated

#11

I'm likely not the target audience, but I personally see "client-only" as a disadvantage. Ultimately I use VS Code to stand up devcontainers on my laptop, but I sometimes need to do dev work on my iPad and don't want to pay for Github Codespaces. Gitpod has worked for me in the past and I've gotten Coder setup. Maybe this will be nice to get Jetbrains IDEs working with the devcontainer standard, since IIRC they don't…

Will they ever? JB isn’t really known for doing that sort of thing.

Re: Codespaces but open-source, client-only, and unopinionated

#12

Apologies, I'm not up to date in this space, so probably a stupid question but how does this differ to docker compose? My understanding of the value of codespaces was instant start up, literally zero to download locally, and centralised definition. Does this mean I would go back to have to downloading everything locally, albeit in a nice sandboxed package with a neat definition language and convenient command?

Docker compose is a pretty poor development environment experience. Constantly having to rebuild containers to recompile dependencies; dealing with permissions differences for volume mounts; having to modify all the scripts to start with "docker compose run --rm"; having to deal with no shell history or dot files in the application containers... it leaves a lot to be desired.

Is it really like that? I expected a docker container having all the deps except for running the project which would be something that’s mounted as a volume. Then each container would spin up its own watcher to build/test/serve the project. And have a bash open to run additional commands.

Maybe my assumptions are wrong though…?

Re: Codespaces but open-source, client-only, and unopinionated

#13

What are some of the competitors in this space? - Gitpod, a SaaS competitor to Codespaces. http://gitpod.io - Coder, which I guess is the more enterprisey self-hosted Codespaces alternative? https://coder.com - This project, Devpod, seems to be a polished experience but not centralized like Coder. - I recently stumbled upon Recode, which looks like a more indie take on the problem. https://github.com/recode-sh/cli

I suppose Eclipse Che https://www.eclipse.org/che/> would also count?

Re: Codespaces but open-source, client-only, and unopinionated

#14

What are some of the competitors in this space? - Gitpod, a SaaS competitor to Codespaces. http://gitpod.io - Coder, which I guess is the more enterprisey self-hosted Codespaces alternative? https://coder.com - This project, Devpod, seems to be a polished experience but not centralized like Coder. - I recently stumbled upon Recode, which looks like a more indie take on the problem. https://github.com/recode-sh/cli

It's a lot older but I would say Vagrant intersects with this space

https://github.com/hashicorp/vagrant

Possibly devenv, as well.. Though I haven't personally tried it

https://devenv.sh/

Re: Codespaces but open-source, client-only, and unopinionated

#15
> DevPod is the first and only tool for creating and managing dev environments that does not require a heavyweight server-side setup.

I guess either "dev environment" means something different to what I understand by the term, or Nixpkgs is considered a "heavyweight server-side setup"?

Re: Codespaces but open-source, client-only, and unopinionated

#16

What are some of the competitors in this space? - Gitpod, a SaaS competitor to Codespaces. http://gitpod.io - Coder, which I guess is the more enterprisey self-hosted Codespaces alternative? https://coder.com - This project, Devpod, seems to be a polished experience but not centralized like Coder. - I recently stumbled upon Recode, which looks like a more indie take on the problem. https://github.com/recode-sh/cli

I think StackBlitz (https://stackblitz.com/) falls into this space

Re: Codespaces but open-source, client-only, and unopinionated

#17

What are some of the competitors in this space? - Gitpod, a SaaS competitor to Codespaces. http://gitpod.io - Coder, which I guess is the more enterprisey self-hosted Codespaces alternative? https://coder.com - This project, Devpod, seems to be a polished experience but not centralized like Coder. - I recently stumbled upon Recode, which looks like a more indie take on the problem. https://github.com/recode-sh/cli

There's also koding.com, which has been around for a while. I tried the service quite a long time ago because I used to find the "cloud coding" concept enticing, though it was definitely not as baked (probably due to Monaco not existing at the time, and likewise, browsers not being as good.) Nowadays I still feel like the user experience problems, limitations, and cost (when not subsidized) with coding this way largely make it a niche for people who have unusual needs. Especially because, there are tons of local options for reproducible dev environments, and they can continue to work without a network connection or on unreliable connections, something that is unimpressive even in the best conditions I've seen so far.

If you happen to have the exact set of needs that one of these products solve, then it can probably work fairly well. But, even when working on "web" stuff, I always find myself feeling like they're just never quite as good as just doing things locally. I feel like devcontainers and cloud coding in general are more impressive to those who haven't managed to tame their own dev environments and are seeing a solution to this for the first time.

It's also clearly useful for people on iPads and other devices that are either too low end to run/compile your code or arbitrarily limited to prevent it. However, with how powerful iPads are nowadays, it feels like if Apple ever allowed apps to use virtualization extensions, it would probably be a better solution for a lot of people who do not need a huge cloud workstation with a lot of RAM. I imagine your average Rails app or Go backend would just have no problem running directly on an iPad.

Re: Codespaces but open-source, client-only, and unopinionated

#18

What are some of the competitors in this space? - Gitpod, a SaaS competitor to Codespaces. http://gitpod.io - Coder, which I guess is the more enterprisey self-hosted Codespaces alternative? https://coder.com - This project, Devpod, seems to be a polished experience but not centralized like Coder. - I recently stumbled upon Recode, which looks like a more indie take on the problem. https://github.com/recode-sh/cli

https://hocus.dev/

Re: Codespaces but open-source, client-only, and unopinionated

#19

My immediate thought is the design isn’t there yet. Maybe the tool is but people also pick tools based on how they look, and this could take a facelift before mass marketed.

What isn't there yet about the design? It seems like a standard flat modern tool to me from the screenshots in their docs.

Re: Codespaces but open-source, client-only, and unopinionated

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Docker compose is a pretty poor development environment experience. Constantly having to rebuild containers to recompile dependencies; dealing with permissions differences for volume mounts; having to modify all the scripts to start with "docker compose run --rm"; having to deal with no shell history or dot files in the application containers... it leaves a lot to be desired.

Is it really like that? I expected a docker container having all the deps except for running the project which would be something that’s mounted as a volume. Then each container would spin up its own watcher to build/test/serve the project. And have a bash open to run additional commands. Maybe my assumptions are wrong though…?

The first problem you'll encounter here is if you're using a language that keeps dependencies in a separate place (virtualenv, central cache location, etc.). You have to figure out how that works and mount that location as a separate volume, or else you'll be constantly recompiling everything when your container is recreated. Using a bind mount for the project files is also annoying because docker-compose makes no effort to sync your uid/gid, so you have all sorts of annoying permissions issues between local/container. And installing packages into your container that doesn't have an init process is... annoying at best. You can use sysbox to get one, but you're not really "just using docker compose" at that point.
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