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Should you standardise tools in your company? Case of Miro vs. MS Whiteboard

engineering.telia.no

11–20 of 70 posts

Re: Should you standardise tools in your company? Case of Miro vs. MS Whiteboard

#11
post #4

Just wait for the migration from Slack to MS Teams, makes me wanna stop working all together. Also, MS recently launched their Notion clone, so all Notion users in MS shops better prepare to migrate to a much worse alternative.

I think MS Teams gets a bad rap that is doesn't deserve. I don't know if the experience has improved or something - maybe Teams used to be worse and people are reacting to how it used to be?

I've also been using MS Loop a lot and it's pretty great actually. It's clearly still under development and missing a lot of features but leaving that aside, I don't think it's fair to dismiss it as a Notion clone. It's far simpler than Notion and for writing things like company handbooks that's a good thing, actually. Sometimes simpler is better. If you need all the tables as database stuff, then use Notion. If you need a simple and clean documentation source, well I've tried a lot of these kinds of apps over the years and Loop is shaping up to be one of the better ones IMO.

I say this grudgingly, BTW. I strongly resisted choosing MS for our business. But as a small company in Vietnam we get an amazing value proposition from MS 365 that isn't even close to matched by anything else. We pay about $3.50 per user and we get Teams, video conferencing, office apps, Loop, Visio, Whiteboard, SharePoint (ok that one is genuinely quite bad), and also a load of business automation stuff in the form of Workflows that I'm still exploring. Oh and Shift scheduling. OneNote. About a hundred other things that I forget right now.

Even still I resisted but the final straw was that automatic translation is included in Teams for free. As a bilingual team that's vital for us.

By contrast, just Notion would be $8 per user. I think Slack is $6 per user. Not a lot for a western tech company, but we genuinely can't afford that. MS 365 wins by being "just good enough" at _loads_ of things, and way cheaper than the competition.

Re: Should you standardise tools in your company? Case of Miro vs. MS Whiteboard

#12
It's 2023 and apparently neither of the two main whiteboarding tools allow you to freely choose background colour. So forgive me for not being excited for either.

Keep things simple? Yeah, meet your new standard 6 key board, who needs the other 20 letters anyway: https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61C8GdWvptL._AC_SL1500_....

Re: Should you standardise tools in your company? Case of Miro vs. MS Whiteboard

#13
If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. If you want to pass an IT audit, good fucking luck to you.

I have about 20 years of experience dealing with this ranging from mostly harmonious all the way to civil war.

100 employees and 130 different SaaS tools. Got buy in from senior management to reduce footprint to lower cost and increase security and compliance only to get pushback from every middle manager that would bring up these same reasons why THEIR team is special.

Ok Mr/Mrs Team lead… be careful what you wish for because TCO and full RP status is now on your head. And I know you don’t have the experience to assess the costs, risks and admin workload but you’ve managed to convince the CEO. Not my problem anymore. I’ll let the auditors know where to find you when it comes time.

At least I was smart enough to know to keep Miro, though. They’re reasonably good at managing data over the course of staff churn and the flexible licensing is nice.

Try convincing everyone that grammarly is a keystroke logger.

Re: Should you standardise tools in your company? Case of Miro vs. MS Whiteboard

#14
It seems odd that a post on the official company blog is showcasing disliked IT policy. This reads like an airing of dirty laundry, and I’m kinda surprised it was allowed to be published. I understand the “we have food at home” IT policy of using software you’re already paying for. On the other hand, it’s clear that the author isn’t sure who made the call to ditch Miro and wants Miro reinstated. I wonder if this blog post will convince people internally.

Re: Should you standardise tools in your company? Case of Miro vs. MS Whiteboard

#15
post #7

“ Employee experience and productivity should be equally important in these discussions as cost and security. And if you are making a decision about available tools on behalf of others, you need to spend time to understand the needs of the people you are deciding on behalf of, if you want to make a good decision.” A - F*in - Men. We recently dropped Miro for LucidSpark as we already had LucidChart. It’s so much worse…

Sometimes the mandate is not just to save money, sometimes it’s about putting the business in a compliance posture that will enable you to land revenue from large enterprise customers who have security and data requirements. And then to not get sued into oblivion by their highly paid numerous lawyers.

Re: Should you standardise tools in your company? Case of Miro vs. MS Whiteboard

#16
post #10
post #6

This reads like a really good review of Miro! Either way, I don't see why the people doing the work should not be allowed to (collectively) choose their tools. That way you get both collaboration (because they picked one thing together) and the most appropriate tool for the work to be done.

> Either way, I don't see why the people doing the work should not be allowed to (collectively) choose their tools. Because in a big company you’ll find some things are documented in a combination of jira and confluence while another are in big figma boards and nobody knows where to look (my gf’s company has exactly this problem). Also in a big company you want to have two teams collaborate but one uses one tool set…

I don’t understand. Would it be sensible to require people using Figma to instead use Jira? Two tools with completely orthogonal use cases. It sounds like you’re describing a different problem.

Re: Should you standardise tools in your company? Case of Miro vs. MS Whiteboard

#17
post #8
post #4

Just wait for the migration from Slack to MS Teams, makes me wanna stop working all together. Also, MS recently launched their Notion clone, so all Notion users in MS shops better prepare to migrate to a much worse alternative.

I briefly led an underground incentive to use something other than Teams among the engineers at a previous employer. It gathered quite a bit of steam even though none of the alternatives proposed were great. Tells you what people think of Teams! (It petered out when my priorities shifted, though, so I guess that tells you how much bandwidth people actually have for caring about their instant messaging. (There had alr…

Personally, I don't mind if a tool is rubbish as long as I can use the bits I need to use and the rest doesn't get in my way. I don't like Teams but mostly keep to chat and video calls and that works fine.

Sure, there is other stuff that might be junk like files, tasks and apps but I just don't use that.

That is the old adage about keeping the main thing the main thing. It depresses me how many major apps doesn't even do the basics well, either performance is terrible or the UX is over-complicated.

Re: Should you standardise tools in your company? Case of Miro vs. MS Whiteboard

#18
post #6

This reads like a really good review of Miro! Either way, I don't see why the people doing the work should not be allowed to (collectively) choose their tools. That way you get both collaboration (because they picked one thing together) and the most appropriate tool for the work to be done.

I think it's often a case of better the devil you know...

Imagine adding a new app. Can you just delete the existing? Not necessarily, maybe some people need to use that so now you are supporting 2 apps. Maybe there is a lot of legal work to check the status of a new app. Maybe the new tool seems great but maybe once you have committed to it and taken a large amount of time and money migrating, maybe it doesn't scale well. Maybe a certain feature doesn't work like it needs to.

The problem with the idea of the collective is that not all people have skin in the game. It costs nothing for someone to say they prefer something to something else but how do you make sure that the people who use it the most have more say in the choice?

The truth is, the status quo is always easier than something new.

Re: Should you standardise tools in your company? Case of Miro vs. MS Whiteboard

#19
post #10
post #6

This reads like a really good review of Miro! Either way, I don't see why the people doing the work should not be allowed to (collectively) choose their tools. That way you get both collaboration (because they picked one thing together) and the most appropriate tool for the work to be done.

> Either way, I don't see why the people doing the work should not be allowed to (collectively) choose their tools. Because in a big company you’ll find some things are documented in a combination of jira and confluence while another are in big figma boards and nobody knows where to look (my gf’s company has exactly this problem). Also in a big company you want to have two teams collaborate but one uses one tool set…

For the first problem, I would argue the tools people work with and the formats they publish should be two completely different decisions. Work however you want, but sure as hell publish in a standardised format supported across the organisation.

For the second problem, I guess I don't have much to say because I haven't tried running a large company. I just have never heard any good reason to be stingy with licences. On the other hand, the time I have wasted and the extra work I have done to get around problems caused by upper managment being stingy with licences has cost a lot more than the licence would.

I guess this will immediately make people discard my opinion, but I don't actually feel very strongly about each team having its own formatting rules or coding standard. It's not hard to adapt to the local conventions and the consequences of formatting rules are incredibly local.

Re: Should you standardise tools in your company? Case of Miro vs. MS Whiteboard

#20

If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. If you want to pass an IT audit, good fucking luck to you. I have about 20 years of experience dealing with this ranging from mostly harmonious all the way to civil war. 100 employees and 130 different SaaS tools. Got buy in from senior management to reduce footprint to lower cost and increase security and compliance only to get pushback from every…

> Try convincing everyone that grammarly is a keystroke logger.

Funny how it's not the opposite viewpoint that is scrutinized. Prove how it's not a keystroke logger, then Grammarly can be deployed. Until then, it's assumed to be malicious. That's how people treat for example ChatGPT as well.

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