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Stop Calling Each New Disaster “The New Normal”

thewalrus.ca

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Re: Stop Calling Each New Disaster “The New Normal”

#11

Post by swader999 »

exitb wrote: post #9

While I support the efforts to prevent and reverse the environmental damage we're causing, personally I don't believe they'll really succeed. It seems that human society is fundamentally incapable of acting in a coordinated way against a global, long term threat. So at a certain point convincing people to take the bus instead of a car, specifically because that will save the planet, starts to seem like a lie. It's no…

We dealt with the ozone hole fairly well. There hasn't been total nuclear war. The Netherlands is ten feet under sea level and does fine. Polar bears and all other bears are absolutely thriving.

Re: Stop Calling Each New Disaster “The New Normal”

#12

Post by op00to »

swader999 wrote: post #8

What happened in Alberta was just a couple weeks of warm weather after a fairly cold winter. The timing was right when new growth hadn't had a chance to take hold so all the dry grass and tinder was perfect fuel. The rap attack helicopter crews were dismantled in both BC and Alberta to save a few millions at best. Easily doubled the size of the burn area not having this capability. This is normal but not new. Alberta…

The problem isn’t just the fire. It’s the strange weather patterns that bring smoke down to areas that have never seen conditions like that. Was the warm ocean keeping the jet stream from its typical shape?

Re: Stop Calling Each New Disaster “The New Normal”

#13

Post by 29_29 »

defrost wrote: post #10
pixel3234 wrote: post #5

Disasters are normal! In past 10,000 years global sea level has risen by 100 meters.

Accuracy, please. During the peak of the last Ice Age (~20,000 years ago), sea level was ~120 m lower than today. As a consequence of global warming, albeit naturally, the rate of sea-level rise averaged ~1.2 cm per year for 10,000 years until it levelled off at roughly today's position ~10,000 years ago. [1] The important part being things have been stable for a very long time wrt human history . All our established…

Accuracy, please.

Florida has been both completely submerged and prior to the ice age had much much more coast line. If you dig anywhere in Florida you can find evidence of it being the sea floor.

> with the result being that the oceans were about 400 feet (122 meters) lower than today. During the last global "warm spell," about 125,000 years ago, the seas were about 18 feet (5.5. meters) higher [1]

https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/coastline-eastern-us-chang...

Re: Stop Calling Each New Disaster “The New Normal”

#14

Post by swader999 »

defrost wrote: post #10
pixel3234 wrote: post #5

Disasters are normal! In past 10,000 years global sea level has risen by 100 meters.

Accuracy, please. During the peak of the last Ice Age (~20,000 years ago), sea level was ~120 m lower than today. As a consequence of global warming, albeit naturally, the rate of sea-level rise averaged ~1.2 cm per year for 10,000 years until it levelled off at roughly today's position ~10,000 years ago. [1] The important part being things have been stable for a very long time wrt human history . All our established…

Except it never leveled off. It's been rising at the same rate for several thousand years.

Re: Stop Calling Each New Disaster “The New Normal”

#15

Post by crooked-v »

boredumb wrote: post #3

I think all the alarmist language is doing a massive disservice to environmental concerns for the reason the author is portraying but also a much different reason where a lot of people tend to greet hysterics with absolute doubt and discern. When environmentalists decided instead of having a real public conversation and resorting to what a lot of people perceive as the people screaming on the corner about the end tim…

The attempts at "real public conversation" led to passive or active mockery anyway. Consider, for example, ManBearPig.

Re: Stop Calling Each New Disaster “The New Normal”

#16

Post by perfunctory »

Too bad the author is not offering any alternative. It's not good enough to just say "stop doing X". It would be nice if it's followed by "Do Y instead".

Maybe I missed it, but the only thing I found in the whole article that resembles a counterproposal is a single sentence in the end - "... policy flows from conversation and debate instead of force."

So we are supposed to have more conversation and debate? Sounds like exactly what we've been doing for the last 30,40,50 years.

Re: Stop Calling Each New Disaster “The New Normal”

#17

Post by swader999 »

op00to wrote: post #12
swader999 wrote: post #8

What happened in Alberta was just a couple weeks of warm weather after a fairly cold winter. The timing was right when new growth hadn't had a chance to take hold so all the dry grass and tinder was perfect fuel. The rap attack helicopter crews were dismantled in both BC and Alberta to save a few millions at best. Easily doubled the size of the burn area not having this capability. This is normal but not new. Alberta…

The problem isn’t just the fire. It’s the strange weather patterns that bring smoke down to areas that have never seen conditions like that. Was the warm ocean keeping the jet stream from its typical shape?

Smoke in New York from Canadian boreal fires happened in the May 2010 fire and the May 1870 Saguenay fire. In 1870 parts of Europe were covered in smoke from the Canadian fire. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saguenay_Fire

Re: Stop Calling Each New Disaster “The New Normal”

#18

Post by sgt »

2043AD: "A nuclear bomb went off today in New York City. Welcome ladies and gentlemen, to the New Normal™. That is why we at Chemcorp have a special on Iodine tablets for only $3.99/month! So put on your radiation suit and head on down to your nearest store!"

Re: Stop Calling Each New Disaster “The New Normal”

#19

Post by exitb »

swader999 wrote: post #11
exitb wrote: post #9

While I support the efforts to prevent and reverse the environmental damage we're causing, personally I don't believe they'll really succeed. It seems that human society is fundamentally incapable of acting in a coordinated way against a global, long term threat. So at a certain point convincing people to take the bus instead of a car, specifically because that will save the planet, starts to seem like a lie. It's no…

We dealt with the ozone hole fairly well. There hasn't been total nuclear war. The Netherlands is ten feet under sea level and does fine. Polar bears and all other bears are absolutely thriving.

Neither of these things required any change from regular people. In fact, today many people say that ozone hole just disappeared, because the changes needed were so transparent, no one even noticed. Is there a way people can continue their normal lives, but still eliminate the green house gasses emissions?

Re: Stop Calling Each New Disaster “The New Normal”

#20

Post by jbu »

boredumb wrote: post #3

I think all the alarmist language is doing a massive disservice to environmental concerns for the reason the author is portraying but also a much different reason where a lot of people tend to greet hysterics with absolute doubt and discern. When environmentalists decided instead of having a real public conversation and resorting to what a lot of people perceive as the people screaming on the corner about the end tim…

News people don't like is often dismissed as 'hysterics', 'alarmism', etc, which is a well known cognitive bias. Nearly all people trying to improve the future do so sensibly, following established processes and norms and trying to be nice, but you haven't heard of these people because that's not how change is made in the face of established power that doesn't want the change. Most of that good work gets sunk. Change in the face of vested interests is 'noisy, hysterical, disagreeable', at least to the vested interests.
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