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News from WWDC23: WebKit Features in Safari 17 Beta

webkit.org

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Re: News from WWDC23: WebKit Features in Safari 17 Beta

#11

Post by littlecranky67 »

kevincox wrote: post #9

> When a user adds a website to their Dock, Safari will copy the website’s cookies to the web app. That way, if someone is logged into their account in Safari, they will remain logged in within the web app. This will only work if the authentication state is stored within cookies. Safari does not copy over any other kind of local storage. After a user adds a web app to the Dock, no other website data is shared, which…

Wish they would do this on iOS (and allow a custom install button). They recently removed shared Caches between serviceworkers in Safari and the PWA on iOS, requiring to relogin after every PWA "install" :(

As for your (2) point, I think cookies is the only thing that should be copied. LocalStorage or IndexedDB could result in inconsistwncies and breakage (PWA and Website code can version missmatch).

Re: News from WWDC23: WebKit Features in Safari 17 Beta

#12

Post by littlecranky67 »

> Web apps on Mac support web push, badging, and all the usual web standards implemented by WebKit, just like web apps on iOS and iPadOS.

Not a lie, but they leave out an important part: To have webpush or badges on iOS you need to "install" the web app - but since iOS PWAs block custom install buttons, the user had to know thst he has to push "Share" and "Add to home screen". To my experience, almost noone knows this or does this.

Re: News from WWDC23: WebKit Features in Safari 17 Beta

#13

Post by DANmode »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #12

> Web apps on Mac support web push, badging, and all the usual web standards implemented by WebKit, just like web apps on iOS and iPadOS. Not a lie, but they leave out an important part: To have webpush or badges on iOS you need to "install" the web app - but since iOS PWAs block custom install buttons, the user had to know thst he has to push "Share" and "Add to home screen". To my experience, almost noone knows thi…

> the user had to know thst he has to push "Share" and "Add to home screen".

So there has to be a tasteful user notification informing them that the site has enabled that feature in the manifest?

Re: News from WWDC23: WebKit Features in Safari 17 Beta

#14

Post by zwily »

kevincox wrote: post #9

> When a user adds a website to their Dock, Safari will copy the website’s cookies to the web app. That way, if someone is logged into their account in Safari, they will remain logged in within the web app. This will only work if the authentication state is stored within cookies. Safari does not copy over any other kind of local storage. After a user adds a web app to the Dock, no other website data is shared, which…

I think links to the website installed as an app would open the app, no?

Re: News from WWDC23: WebKit Features in Safari 17 Beta

#15

Post by DANmode »

simpleintheory wrote: post #3
samwillis wrote: post #2

Lots of really nice new stuff, particularly excited that Apple are finally embracing PWAs! Interesting to see Safari adding JPEG XL support just as Chrome dropped it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35589179 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33399940

That’s on Mac. PWAs on Mac aren’t a new capability since Chrome et al have had it for a long time. I’d be more interested if they improved iOS PWA capabilities

Any running list of what's still missing?

Re: News from WWDC23: WebKit Features in Safari 17 Beta

#16

Post by littlecranky67 »

DANmode wrote: post #13
littlecranky67 wrote: post #12

> Web apps on Mac support web push, badging, and all the usual web standards implemented by WebKit, just like web apps on iOS and iPadOS. Not a lie, but they leave out an important part: To have webpush or badges on iOS you need to "install" the web app - but since iOS PWAs block custom install buttons, the user had to know thst he has to push "Share" and "Add to home screen". To my experience, almost noone knows thi…

> the user had to know thst he has to push "Share" and "Add to home screen". So there has to be a tasteful user notification informing them that the site has enabled that feature in the manifest?

Look at how android does it: By some heuristic (i.e. visiting the site regularly and interacting with it), Chrome will suggest you install the App (using Chromes UI). Additionally, you can have a custom UI button on your website, that triggers the install (user interaction is required to avoid install spam).

Neither works for Safari/iOS. The only way to help the user, is to show a step-by-step tutorial how he has to navigate his iOS Safari to install. And on top of that, nothing is shared between the installed PWA and the Safari instance - always requiring the user to re-login after install. It is just poor UX.

Re: News from WWDC23: WebKit Features in Safari 17 Beta

#17

Post by littlecranky67 »

kevincox wrote: post #9

> When a user adds a website to their Dock, Safari will copy the website’s cookies to the web app. That way, if someone is logged into their account in Safari, they will remain logged in within the web app. This will only work if the authentication state is stored within cookies. Safari does not copy over any other kind of local storage. After a user adds a web app to the Dock, no other website data is shared, which…

> Auth with local storage can be quite nice

With the `SameSite=strict` option on modern browsers and the `HttpOnly` (plus `Secure` to only run in SSL secured context), Cookies are more secure and the way to go instead of storing credentials anywhere accessible from within JavaScript. Before SameSite=strict, cookies were a security nightmare and often resultet in XSRF attacks, and required XSRF mitigations (like xsrf tokens), but this is no longer the case as all modern browsers support it.

Re: News from WWDC23: WebKit Features in Safari 17 Beta

#18

Post by scarface_74 »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #12

> Web apps on Mac support web push, badging, and all the usual web standards implemented by WebKit, just like web apps on iOS and iPadOS. Not a lie, but they leave out an important part: To have webpush or badges on iOS you need to "install" the web app - but since iOS PWAs block custom install buttons, the user had to know thst he has to push "Share" and "Add to home screen". To my experience, almost noone knows thi…

This is a good thing. Most websites that want to send you post notifications just want to spam you. It should be very intentional.

Re: News from WWDC23: WebKit Features in Safari 17 Beta

#19

Post by wpm »

scarface_74 wrote: post #18
littlecranky67 wrote: post #12

> Web apps on Mac support web push, badging, and all the usual web standards implemented by WebKit, just like web apps on iOS and iPadOS. Not a lie, but they leave out an important part: To have webpush or badges on iOS you need to "install" the web app - but since iOS PWAs block custom install buttons, the user had to know thst he has to push "Share" and "Add to home screen". To my experience, almost noone knows thi…

This is a good thing. Most websites that want to send you post notifications just want to spam you. It should be very intentional.

I have never, not once, in the years since websites could ask me if they can send me notifications said “yes, please notify me”. The notification prompt usually is just a reminder I need to go turn off the setting that lets websites ask me this silly question.

Who is consenting to these? What is their deal? It makes no sense to me.

Re: News from WWDC23: WebKit Features in Safari 17 Beta

#20

Post by scarface_74 »

wpm wrote: post #19
scarface_74 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good thing. Most websites that want to send you post notifications just want to spam you. It should be very intentional.

I have never, not once, in the years since websites could ask me if they can send me notifications said “yes, please notify me”. The notification prompt usually is just a reminder I need to go turn off the setting that lets websites ask me this silly question. Who is consenting to these? What is their deal? It makes no sense to me.

It’s the indy developer on HN who thinks that if only mean old Apple would enable this they could make millions by having a cross platform poorly performing web app without having to deal with the “App Store tax”.
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