Live data from Hacker News

Why are there no antitrust claims vs. GitHub Copilot, when there is a precedent?

thehftguy.com

11–20 of 127 posts

Re: Why are there no antitrust claims vs. GitHub Copilot, when there is a precedent?

#11
What a ridiculous article. Copilot does not violate antitrust law. GitHub is not a monopoly just because open source devs choose to host there. Devs are free to use GitLab or whatever.

Comparing this to Google Books is silly. Google stole copyrighted books. Copilot uses freely shared open source code. No copyright issue.

The article claims "Open source code on GitHub might be thought of as 'open and freely accessible' but it is not." Lol what? The MIT and Apache licenses explicitly allow reuse. Copilot can absolutely use open source data.

This is typical hype and FUD. No evidence Copilot even used all of GitHub's data or violated any licenses. Baseless speculation.

There's no real antitrust argument here. Nothing to see, move along. yawn

Re: Why are there no antitrust claims vs. GitHub Copilot, when there is a precedent?

#13

When I published stuff to GitHub, it had open licenses: i wanted anyone and everyone to make whatever use of it they could. I didn't foresee this use, and I'm not fond of Microsoft (to say the least); but it certainly falls into the area of things I explicitly allowed when publishing. I suspect many others who publish there feel the same way.

Well, I certainly had some expectations that are covered in the license. I.e that derivative work is a subject of some constraints and that copyrights are not removed from the code.

Re: Why are there no antitrust claims vs. GitHub Copilot, when there is a precedent?

#15

> Microsoft GitHub is the largest collection of open source code in the world. Microsoft GitHub is in a unique and dominant positions to host and access and distribute most of the open-source code in the world No, it's not in a "unique and dominant position". Open source code is freely available online, it's almost trivial to build a bot to scrape OS code from anywhere on the web (GitHub included). The comparison to…

There certainly are other spaces where open source code is hosted and available, but the default for most is GitHub. I think it's in a similar position to Google 10 years ago. Sure there are other search engines, but Google is by and large the standard one.

That does put Microsoft in the unique position to have direct unfettered access to any and all open source code on GitHub without restrictions. Unless you or I get the same kind of direct access without rate limiting and antibot protection, then they do dominate and have an advantage over everyone else.

Re: Why are there no antitrust claims vs. GitHub Copilot, when there is a precedent?

#16
If you’re curious, the case continued in different directions and reached important decisions regarding books, I won’t get into them because they are not relevant to GitHub. (Google being allowed or not allowed to show a one page preview of a book, to a user who was looking for a quote from a book, is not directly applicable to the concerns surrounding GitHub and GitHub Copilot)

Spoiler alert: Google was copying books in a manner considered fair use, consistent with Sony v Universal. I’m not sure why this author thinks this is irrelevant. The Federal court system surely won’t!

Re: Why are there no antitrust claims vs. GitHub Copilot, when there is a precedent?

#17
Obligatory, “Was this article written by chatgpt?”

It’s not antitrust because GitHub isn’t a monopoly. And copilot only scanned public repos, so anyone could train, if they like.

Also this isn’t like the Google Books case because Google made the books available, violating copyright. GitHub has not made the code available. So these cases aren’t similar and aren’t antitrust.

Although comically, by using GitHub I grant them copyright to publish my public repo so I suppose they could republish my repo in other ways without any additional permission. It would be interesting if their license allows them to rebounder and publish my repos in a book or something.

Re: Why are there no antitrust claims vs. GitHub Copilot, when there is a precedent?

#18

> Microsoft GitHub is the largest collection of open source code in the world. Microsoft GitHub is in a unique and dominant positions to host and access and distribute most of the open-source code in the world No, it's not in a "unique and dominant position". Open source code is freely available online, it's almost trivial to build a bot to scrape OS code from anywhere on the web (GitHub included). The comparison to…

This is addressed in the same paragraph - you can't scan/download "whole" github because you'll be throttled.

There’s no need to crawl for your own dataset:

https://pile.eleuther.ai/

Re: Why are there no antitrust claims vs. GitHub Copilot, when there is a precedent?

#19

I believe the closest precedent is: Grand Upright Music, Ltd. v. Warner Bros. Records, Inc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Upright_Music,_Ltd._v._W... .

Wow, that's horrible. I didn't know that sampling and mashups required an explicit license. Looks like it's in the EU as well. edit: Hm, Pelham v Hütter C-476/17 might offer some grace for mashups under the quotation exemption at least. Though I wouldn't rely on that.

"Wow, that's horrible. I didn't know that sampling and mashups required an explicit license."

The conclusion essentially boils down to "remixing is not fair use". Today's hip-hop is a direct result of that decision because sampling became prohibitively expensive.

Re: Why are there no antitrust claims vs. GitHub Copilot, when there is a precedent?

#20

> Microsoft GitHub is the largest collection of open source code in the world. Microsoft GitHub is in a unique and dominant positions to host and access and distribute most of the open-source code in the world No, it's not in a "unique and dominant position". Open source code is freely available online, it's almost trivial to build a bot to scrape OS code from anywhere on the web (GitHub included). The comparison to…

> It's almost trivial to built a bot to scrape OS code from anywhere on the web. Seems like a logistical nightmare to me. Git repos interact spectacularly poorly with web scraping in general.

I would've said you should download only archives, but really I think commits are also very important data since that shows the actual changes in the code which would be very useful to train AI to suggest changes to the code.
Post reply on HN