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Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

bleepingcomputer.com

11–20 of 314 posts

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#11
post #2

Japanese auto completely missed the memo on software. Many of them won't make the ev transition. It's hard to imagine what Japanese economy is going to be like once their auto industry is gutted.

I worked for Toyota Infotechnology Center in Sunnyvale in 2016/2017 on a robotics research project involving their HSR robot running ROS.

The robot had odometry from the wheels, though it was a bit noisy due to the construction of the omnidirectional mechanism. They decided to ignore wheel odometry and use only an odometry module based on the planar lidar, essentially visual odometry. This worked fine in most circumstances, but basically completely failed in hallways as they lacked distinctive features. This interfered with my work which involved the robot navigating around the office.

I had worked on this problem before, and ROS has an excellent sensor fusion library for dealing with multiple noisy sensor readings. You just need to combine wheel odometry and laser odometry with a kalmann filter, and the sensor fusion library makes this relatively easy.

However even though I worked at a Toyota office with full time Toyota employees, and the code was pretty much off the shelf ROS code, and the robots were produced in very low volumes and only in use at Toyota, they wouldn't give me the source code. I think maybe they wouldn't even give me root access.

Still, I was able to control the names of ROS topics using the ROS launch files (it has been a while since I worked with ROS and I forget some of the terms). I remapped the lidar odometry topic to an intermediary topic name instead of /odom, then directed the intermediary topic in to the sensor fusion module along with the wheel odometry, then mapped the sensor fusion output to /odom. The system got odometry information but now it did not come from the lidar odometry but from the sensor fusion module, so it was happy.

The fix worked great. It had normal behavior when lidar was good, and had reliable odometry in long hallways. I was finally able to implement my office navigation code.

I did my best to communicate these changes back to Toyota. They had not been very helpful when I was asking for help solving the issue, but I had hoped that since I had it working they would appreciate this. I asked where I could file a git issue or otherwise push the code to some private git repo.

They were not using git. Ultimately I was instructed to email the raw code files I had used along with instructions for how to integrate it. I found this quite surprising. I have no idea if they ever implemented the changes I suggested, but I kind of doubt it. From what I have heard of japanese software practices, they basically do not accept code suggestions from the bottom up.

I know of some people who worked for Toyota Research Institute who said they were trying to get the Toyota folks to integrate silicon valley coding rigor in to their systems. Maybe they had success, I don't know. But certainly 6 years ago things were a total mess.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#12
post #8
post #2

Japanese auto completely missed the memo on software. Many of them won't make the ev transition. It's hard to imagine what Japanese economy is going to be like once their auto industry is gutted.

Toyota's hybrid tech is and has been the best and most reliable for a very long time. I think it's a shame that the EV regulations and incentives (at least in America) are not as friendly for traditional hybrids and plug-in hybrids. They have basically zero downsides compared to full ICE or full EV, and would still make a massive dent in emissions. PHEVs in particular - most people are going under 100 miles a day, so…

> They have basically zero downsides

They need oil changes. Some don't mind, but I do. It's a downside.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#13
post #2

Japanese auto completely missed the memo on software. Many of them won't make the ev transition. It's hard to imagine what Japanese economy is going to be like once their auto industry is gutted.

japan is a US protectorate. when china starts marketing their EV's abroad the US will just sanction them. don't worry, japan is safe.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#15
post #2

Japanese auto completely missed the memo on software. Many of them won't make the ev transition. It's hard to imagine what Japanese economy is going to be like once their auto industry is gutted.

Japan generally. They tried to pull a great leap forward move with AI a few decades ago, but just ended up wasting billions on dead end approaches right on the cusp of the AI winter. My personal opinion is that really top notch breakthrough software engineering and computer science is susceptible to an exponential cascade butterfly effect.

Yes you need big teams to deliver huge projects. Operating systems, compilers, languages, etc all take huge investment to build out. The thing is though the initial conditions have a massive downstream effect. The core contributions by genius 10x computer scientists and software engineers set the pace for everyone else. Unix, C, Linux, Git, LLVM, Perl, Python, who knows what else. It's the individuals or small dedicated teams doing it the 'wrong' way, or going for a weird untested approach that starts a small speck that snowballs into huge multi-billion industries.

The culture and economic conditions in the US are perfect for this to work. Japan, and for different reasons and certainly not the the same scale Europe, not so much.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#16

Why does Toyota even have this data?

Checkout their privacy policy, it includes biometrics and facial scans, and microphone data. It's absolutely wild.

https://www.toyota.com/support/privacy-notice/

https://web.archive.org/web/20230512181415/https://www.toyot...

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#17
post #2

Japanese auto completely missed the memo on software. Many of them won't make the ev transition. It's hard to imagine what Japanese economy is going to be like once their auto industry is gutted.

I worked for Toyota Infotechnology Center in Sunnyvale in 2016/2017 on a robotics research project involving their HSR robot running ROS. The robot had odometry from the wheels, though it was a bit noisy due to the construction of the omnidirectional mechanism. They decided to ignore wheel odometry and use only an odometry module based on the planar lidar, essentially visual odometry. This worked fine in most circums…

> silicon valley coding rigor

This was refreshing to read. Within my bubble in tech, it's often easy to get jaded about how _unrigorous_ our "engineering" often is.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#18
post #2

Japanese auto completely missed the memo on software. Many of them won't make the ev transition. It's hard to imagine what Japanese economy is going to be like once their auto industry is gutted.

Where are all these American companies getting their batteries from? Mostly Japan... Rivian, Tesla, Lucid, Gravity, Ford, GMC.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#20
post #8
post #2

Japanese auto completely missed the memo on software. Many of them won't make the ev transition. It's hard to imagine what Japanese economy is going to be like once their auto industry is gutted.

Toyota's hybrid tech is and has been the best and most reliable for a very long time. I think it's a shame that the EV regulations and incentives (at least in America) are not as friendly for traditional hybrids and plug-in hybrids. They have basically zero downsides compared to full ICE or full EV, and would still make a massive dent in emissions. PHEVs in particular - most people are going under 100 miles a day, so…

Toyota has only recently put into production PHEVs that seem a lot more practical.

For example, the electric-only range for the 2012 Prius PHEV is 15 miles, not enough for many people's daily commute unless you can plug in at both destinations. The 2023 Prius Prime is around 40, which is much better, so maybe you can just plug in at night at home.

It is only the 5th generation Prius that is truly designed around having a higher capacity battery pack, ditto for the recent RAV4 PHEV model. The 4th gen Prius fits in the larger battery pack as compromise, with reduced cargo area and wasted volume.

I would have bought a Prius Prime in 2017, and tried to get the tax credit, but there were several issues. There weren't many available in my area, the standard 2017s had driving and parking assist, while the Prime did not, reduced cargo area with no spare tire, and the price, because even with the tax credit was a bit too high for my liking. Just went with a standard Prius instead, and definitely have not regretted the choice. Today I'd buy a PHEV RAV4 or 5th gen Prius though.

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