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Triple-Parity Raid and Beyond (2009)

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Re: Triple-Parity Raid and Beyond (2009)

#11
post #6
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because flash memory loses data over time if it's powered-off. That's a red herring; the magnitude of this effect is usually greatly exaggerated, and in reality never comes close to being as important as the fact that flash memory is simply too expensive to use for cold storage. And of course, the very idea of cold storage is dangerous: if you really want to ensure your data lasts for decades, you should be verifyi…

I remember reading something somewhere about a guy doing tests on "3D" NAND and other TLC/MLC NAND SSDs and finding that data was lost well before the "10 years or so" that we have come to assume unpowered SSDs can retain data for. I can't locate that article at the moment but it isn't unreasonable to expect faster degradation on denser NAND.

The 3D in 3D NAND doesn't belong in scare quotes; the physical arrangement of the memory cells really is three-dimensional and it isn't just a marketing term. The transition from planar NAND to 3D NAND turned back the clock by several years in terms of shrinking memory cell volume and charge differences between adjacent data states.

The SSDs that caught the most flak for poor retention characteristics were using the last generation of planar NAND, in a three bit per cell configuration, which in hindsight was a bit of an overreach. But even then, the worst symptoms that could be reliably reproduced were poor performance reading back stale data, a result of the drives having to use higher levels of ECC to recover the data. (More recent SSDs have vastly more powerful controllers capable of running LDPC calculations much faster.) That's not quite the same as losing data.

Re: Triple-Parity Raid and Beyond (2009)

#12
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will always be a need for platter drives (or other magnetic storage) because flash memory loses data over time if it's powered-off. Theoretically you can store a tape or other magnetic drive for decades in a safety deposit box or the like and your data will still be there if/when you need it. I don't like the trend of SSDs (NVMe or otherwise) getting cheaper and cheaper because it's coming at the cost of reliab…

> I do agree that to RAID (RAID0) NVMe drives is a bit ridiculous, but RAID1 definitely adds value. RAID0 is handy in HPC for local scratch space.

True, but Optane would be a better option for scratch, even on an AMD platform. Wouldn't have to worry about drive wear, and... I'm not sure which would have higher IOPS. With PCIe 4, it's possible the RAID0 NVMe drives would have better IOPS figures.

Re: Triple-Parity Raid and Beyond (2009)

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post #4
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there’s always use cases but I think the interfaces are fast enough NVMe SSDs, direct or over PCIe solve lots of the issue that people made RAID arrays for to begin with sure in theory you can go even faster and redundant with RAID concepts on these nvme ssds, but tad overkill

There will always be a need for platter drives (or other magnetic storage) because flash memory loses data over time if it's powered-off. Theoretically you can store a tape or other magnetic drive for decades in a safety deposit box or the like and your data will still be there if/when you need it. I don't like the trend of SSDs (NVMe or otherwise) getting cheaper and cheaper because it's coming at the cost of reliab…

When SSDs came out I avoided them out of reliability concerns, but figured the endurance would improve over time as the tech matured. But it turns out the reality is that endurance has plummeted:

SLC: 100K cycles

MLC: 10K cycles

TLC: 3K cycles

QLC: 1K cycles

https://www.kingston.com/en/blog/pc-performance/difference-b...

Now SSDs seem to be taking over the laptop world and HDDs are getting harder to find (and smaller, as the larger CMR drives get replaced with garbage SMR models). It seems like reliable storage in a laptop is quickly becoming a thing of the past.

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