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You don't need Scrum, you just need to do Kanban right (2022)

lucasfcosta.com

11–20 of 341 posts

Re: You don't need Scrum, you just need to do Kanban right (2022)

#11

- PM/PO loves scrum, that gives them an illusion of controlling the dev speed/progress... - the estimate is a joke... - the standup is useful to know who is pretending work. but no need a daily standup for sure. and a non-technical PM with scrum makes things worse.

Sounds like you have a very poorly run and dysfunctional team. When applied correctly, good project management ends up better for everyone.

Re: You don't need Scrum, you just need to do Kanban right (2022)

#12
post #8

Is “doing Kanban” just having tasks on a board without any sort of sprint structure? I feel like it’s a bit of a false equivalence. While I won’t ever defend all the cruft that comes with Scrum, the article seems like a bit of a straw man.

I also don't fully understand what "doing Kanban" means - like you, I see Kanban as a type of board rather than a method of going through said board (maybe because of a lack of understanding of process & an over-indulgence in Trello's marketing).

That being said, I would say that having a Kanban board without any sprint structure (or any attached micromeetings) would skyrocket my productivity. The two-week sprint thing is meaningless to me - in my org tickets overflow from one sprint to the next all the time, tickets get added mid-sprint, it's an utterly meaningless distinction.

Re: You don't need Scrum, you just need to do Kanban right (2022)

#13
I am probably missing something but is kanban even the correct metaphor for creative work(like software development).

Kanban is a back pressure mechanism that can get your factory logistics system running smoothly. However the logistics of creative work is very different than the logistics of assembly work. There are almost no parts needed, why is a backpressure system for part delivery even useful?

Re: You don't need Scrum, you just need to do Kanban right (2022)

#14

I've heard over and over from managers that scrum is better at anticipating delivery dates. Even when the dates are consistently missed. They'd rather slow teams down with process so they can have a date to give their stakeholders, regardless of its accuracy.

Managing the confidence of your benefactors is a big deal in business, I'd say you can make a career out of it alone, no other skills required. So in a sense you could say that Scrum is the businessman's brainbaby to handle engineering types.

Re: You don't need Scrum, you just need to do Kanban right (2022)

#15
I’m not a huge scrum defender - I’ve seen it done right and wrong. Same with Kanban. The only real problems I have with Kanban is that without those annoying team planning/documentation meetings, work will get duplicated, done hastily, done with no discussion or thought toward testing, architecture, maintainability. And that’s not exclusively true of Kanban. But I feel like the lack of organization can turn it from less of a “flow state agile” and more into an insane command economy/death march/spaghetti factory. I usually feel Scrum teams are happier, more close-knit and aware of the impacts of teammates work, and more excited about “doing agile right” than in Kanban - which often feels very siloed and “heads down”. Different strokes, I guess.

Re: You don't need Scrum, you just need to do Kanban right (2022)

#16
At some point, the wizard may realize that process is secondary to people, and they can write:

You don't need that process. You just need to do this process right.

And then fill that post with all of the obstacles that doing anything right entails.

Re: You don't need Scrum, you just need to do Kanban right (2022)

#17
post #8

Is “doing Kanban” just having tasks on a board without any sort of sprint structure? I feel like it’s a bit of a false equivalence. While I won’t ever defend all the cruft that comes with Scrum, the article seems like a bit of a straw man.

They're prioritized tasks. They're pulled through. Simplicity is the structure.

Re: You don't need Scrum, you just need to do Kanban right (2022)

#18
post #8

Is “doing Kanban” just having tasks on a board without any sort of sprint structure? I feel like it’s a bit of a false equivalence. While I won’t ever defend all the cruft that comes with Scrum, the article seems like a bit of a straw man.

If you're doing reactive work, an oversimplified explanation of Kanban is to just put pending jobs on the board sorted by priority and that's about it. Doing proactive work means you can choose what goes on the board and that's where the nuance could happen.

In my previous job we used it and I liked it, but I haven't used Scrum before so I can't comment as to how effective it could be.

Re: You don't need Scrum, you just need to do Kanban right (2022)

#19
> This demand for estimations leads to unproductive and unnecessary estimation meetings. These meetings are unproductive because they cause developers to spend time debating whether something is worth two or three story points instead of actually writing code. They’re also unnecessary because if you feed the system with more work as soon as software comes out, estimations don’t matter.

Only if all tasks are of equal priority, which is rare. Otherwise you need some (very basic) cost estimation in order to prioritize.

> Retrospective sessions are also fundamental for a team to continuously improve the way it works. The problem with these sessions in Scrum is that they either happen too early or late. Although it’s good for teams to discuss their practices and look for ways to improve them, it may not be necessary to hold a retrospective session if everything is going fantastically well. Conversely, it may be harmful to wait for two or more weeks to discuss systemic problems impacting the current pieces of work or the overall goal the team is working towards.

> In Kanban, there’s nothing preventing teams from scheduling regular meetings. Yet, teams have the flexibility to schedule meetings whenever they’re necessary.

But unfortunately this means they also have the flexibility to not hold a meeting when it's necessary.

I don't think this article is exactly wrong - Scrum is to a certain extent a crutch, just as any process is to a certain extent a crutch - but I think it overestimates the average manager/team. In my experience teams that pick Kanban over Scrum tend to have issues with stalled, overly-large, and poorly-prioritised tasks (e.g. an undesirable task can sit indefinitely in the "ready for work" column which is usually not what you want), too little process refinement (in particular, retrospectives end up being rare) and take too long to recognise issues.

Scrum is prescriptive and restrictive, but it's like that because it works. After all, if your team was perfect you wouldn't need Kanban either. Just do the right thing and don't do the wrong thing bro.

Re: You don't need Scrum, you just need to do Kanban right (2022)

#20
post #17
post #8

Is “doing Kanban” just having tasks on a board without any sort of sprint structure? I feel like it’s a bit of a false equivalence. While I won’t ever defend all the cruft that comes with Scrum, the article seems like a bit of a straw man.

They're prioritized tasks. They're pulled through. Simplicity is the structure.

I get that, that’s what I do with my team, but I’ve never heard that referred to as “doing Kanban”. Maybe I’m just being pedantic, but writing an article to say “you don’t need Scrum, just pull tasks off the board” completely misses the point of why teams use Scrum.
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