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The Madness in our Methods: Crash of GW9525 and our broken aeromedical system

admiralcloudberg.medium.com

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Re: The Madness in our Methods: Crash of GW9525 and our broken aeromedical system

#11

Post by owenmarshall »

di4na wrote: post #7
owenmarshall wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do enjoy Admiral Cloudberg’s work! > In the aftermath of the crash, experts proposed various measures intended to reduce the risk of pilot suicide, including a rule that there must be two crewmembers in the cockpit at all times. …] Shortly after the crash of flight 9525, the European Aviation Safety Agency began encouraging the policy in Europe in order to gather data about its effectiveness, but after the trial pe…

If this is the crux of the matter you took away from this, you probably missed the point by a lot... Can i recommend a rereading of the last 3 part, the one about medical conditions killing pilots careers and how it incentivise them to hide a lot of conditions?

Pilot suicides leading to death of flyers is incredibly rare, as even the article indicates. But I’m not qualified to say what impact an intervention - even one that appears outwardly positive - could have.

Re: The Madness in our Methods: Crash of GW9525 and our broken aeromedical system

#12

Post by ledauphin »

wly_cdgr wrote: post #8

Sounds like an ethics problem more than a regulatory system problem. The long term solution is not reducing the incentive to lie, it's better and more extensive moral education to increase personal reluctance to lie. Why is that the better solution? Because it has profound benefits that extend far beyond this specific scenario / industry.

Ethics is not reducible to "learning not to lie." There's also "not using sweeping generalizations to dramatically affect individual's lives" and "using authority the way it was intended instead of shrinking from the responsibility granted by the will of the people" and a whole other host of ethical issues that apply to the various aeronautical administrations.

Brainwashing alone does not an ethical system make. You generally have to act ethically in order to teach other people to do the same.

Re: The Madness in our Methods: Crash of GW9525 and our broken aeromedical system

#13

Post by ericpauley »

leetrout wrote: post #4

I briefly held a student pilots license, issued my exemption, due to kidney stones. I have suffered from depression for years and was extremely reluctant to seek treatment because I knew it would be detrimental to flying. My primary care doctor had me try lexapro in 2018 and even though I hadn't flown in 2 years I protested but reluctantly agreed I needed to do something and it was unlikely I would ever fly as a priv…

The situation has improved dramatically in the part 91 world. If you received a 3rd class (including special issuance) within the past 10 years you can likely now do BasicMed as long as your condition is well managed. Might be worth looking into before the 10 year limit expires.

Re: The Madness in our Methods: Crash of GW9525 and our broken aeromedical system

#14

Post by Qem »

Great report! But I missed some discussion on the role workplace bullying may have contributed to mental deterioration of the pilot. At time of the crash, I remember reading some reports he was mocked by colleagues due to working as a flight attendant before becoming a pilot. IIRC they even nicknamed him "Tomato Andy", after the red uniform of flight attendants used by the company.

Re: The Madness in our Methods: Crash of GW9525 and our broken aeromedical system

#15

Post by adhd1110101 »

ericpauley wrote: post #13
leetrout wrote: post #4

I briefly held a student pilots license, issued my exemption, due to kidney stones. I have suffered from depression for years and was extremely reluctant to seek treatment because I knew it would be detrimental to flying. My primary care doctor had me try lexapro in 2018 and even though I hadn't flown in 2 years I protested but reluctantly agreed I needed to do something and it was unlikely I would ever fly as a priv…

The situation has improved dramatically in the part 91 world. If you received a 3rd class (including special issuance) within the past 10 years you can likely now do BasicMed as long as your condition is well managed. Might be worth looking into before the 10 year limit expires.

See part 3 which specifically names the 4 drugs that are permitted with a special issuance. https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/app_process/exam_tech/item47/a...

Re: The Madness in our Methods: Crash of GW9525 and our broken aeromedical system

#16

Post by ericpauley »

adhd1110101 wrote: post #15
ericpauley wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation has improved dramatically in the part 91 world. If you received a 3rd class (including special issuance) within the past 10 years you can likely now do BasicMed as long as your condition is well managed. Might be worth looking into before the 10 year limit expires.

See part 3 which specifically names the 4 drugs that are permitted with a special issuance. https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/app_process/exam_tech/item47/a...

If they already have a non-revoked 3rd class from before, though, having used one not on this list may not prevent getting BasicMed. Even if you’re technically eligible for an SI you should just do BasicMed and not risk it if you don’t have to. Disclaimer: not an AME, YMMV.

Re: The Madness in our Methods: Crash of GW9525 and our broken aeromedical system

#17

Post by adhd1110101 »

ericpauley wrote: post #16
adhd1110101 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See part 3 which specifically names the 4 drugs that are permitted with a special issuance. https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/app_process/exam_tech/item47/a...

If they already have a non-revoked 3rd class from before, though, having used one not on this list may not prevent getting BasicMed. Even if you’re technically eligible for an SI you should just do BasicMed and not risk it if you don’t have to. Disclaimer: not an AME, YMMV.

May not prevent as in you won't get caught. You would not be self-certifying in good faith though.

Re: The Madness in our Methods: Crash of GW9525 and our broken aeromedical system

#18

Post by ericpauley »

adhd1110101 wrote: post #17
ericpauley wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they already have a non-revoked 3rd class from before, though, having used one not on this list may not prevent getting BasicMed. Even if you’re technically eligible for an SI you should just do BasicMed and not risk it if you don’t have to. Disclaimer: not an AME, YMMV.

May not prevent as in you won't get caught. You would not be self-certifying in good faith though.

This is clearly false. The limitations on BasicMed are different from those of a standard medical certificate [0], and have to do with your physician's medical opinion about your ability to operate a plane. There are a few conditions that specifically require a new SI [1] but this is not some pseudo-legal/badfaith game.

[0] https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Form/FAA_Form_8700... [1] https://www.aopa.org/advocacy/pilots/medical/basicmed/basicm...

Re: The Madness in our Methods: Crash of GW9525 and our broken aeromedical system

#19

Post by NoZebra120vClip »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #10

Some of the most commonly prescribed antidepression medications can in certain populations actually increase the risk of suicide. In addition, if you look at the mass killings that have made the news, it seems that most of not all of them were on some type of antidepressant. There may be a link that is worth exploring further, but there are some very strong interests that would be opposed.

Not merely suicide; SSRIs, antipsychotics, and other psychotropic medications carry a high risk of increased incidences of homicide.

This has been known at least since Charles Whitman packed his trusty Dexedrine while shooting up U Texas in 1966, and all the Columbine kids were heavily medicated, as is likely for other "mentally troubled" mass shooters before and since.

The medications responsible for this used to carry appropriate black-box warnings, but since it was a bad PR move, the FDA permitted them to remove it.

Re: The Madness in our Methods: Crash of GW9525 and our broken aeromedical system

#20

Post by ryandrake »

imoverclocked wrote: post #9
dhsysusbsjsi wrote: post #5

Great article, but unfortunately the lying is entrenched culturally. The regulator is so distrusted it can never change. For example in Australia I’ve heard multiple cases of somebody proactively seeking counselling for help dealing with temporarily stressful situations such as divorce, then being grounded at work, and the regulator (CASA) denying medical clearances. This increases the stress. Every time some senior…

This sounds like learned helplessness. Of course there is something they can do. There are a lot of things they can do to become better. The medical profession is almost unrecognizable from what it was in the 1950s. My grandfather (MD) said as much 15 years ago before passing away. It has only changed more since then. The FAA’s policies are based on 1950s medical knowledge and opinions. If you spend any significant t…

> People who had a diagnosis of ADHD as a kid (when getting diagnosed with it was all the rage) have to jump through insane hoops if they disclose that on their FAA medical.

The FAA could change this instantly by simply abandoning their “have you ever” language and focusing on whether or not the pilot currently requires medication for a condition.

The government just loves those “have you ever” questions, though, as you know if you’ve ever applied for a clearance or gone through the immigration process. So they probably aren’t going away.

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