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Dune: Part Two – First Look

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Re: Dune: Part Two – First Look

#11

Post by tweezy »

no_wizard wrote: post #2

A fair question I have, I think, is are these new Dune movies any good? I always felt it would be best as a limited series so there was more time to expand on the characters / story / world and that movie runtimes - even though they're getting longer - just aren't a good medium for complex stories like this that rely on heavy background and backstory HBO paved the way for high value high production series, seems like…

I've found a barbell shape to the response. People either seem to really like or hate it. Not too many people I know that are in the middle.

I will say I'm one of the people that really like it. I'm a big fan of the first Dune book and I think it does a great job of being true to the story. It's visually stunning and the score is perfect. My only gripe (and it's a big one) is that the cut the dinner scene. I don't understand that choice at all, but it wasn't enough to ruin the whole movie for me.

People that I know who don't like it think it's slow and that nothing really happens. And they're right. It also just awkwardly cuts off in the middle, so it doesn't feel like a complete movie. As a fan of the book, that didn't bother me too much because I realize it's just half the story and they can't make a 6 hour movie. But it is jarring, especially if you aren't already familiar with the plot.

And you are 100% correct that this would be better suited as an HBO miniseries. There's just way too much to cram into a movie. If you haven't checked out SyFy's miniseries and the Children of Dune miniseries, they are surprising good given the low budget SyFy had for it (compared to Villeneuve's budget at least).

Re: Dune: Part Two – First Look

#12

Post by [deleted] »

gurchik wrote: post #8
no_wizard wrote: post #2

A fair question I have, I think, is are these new Dune movies any good? I always felt it would be best as a limited series so there was more time to expand on the characters / story / world and that movie runtimes - even though they're getting longer - just aren't a good medium for complex stories like this that rely on heavy background and backstory HBO paved the way for high value high production series, seems like…

If you’ve already read the book, you might enjoy the movie. If you haven’t, I’m reminded of this article: https://www.theonion.com/dune-part-two-to-pick-up-right-wher...

[deleted]

Re: Dune: Part Two – First Look

#13

Post by dylan604 »

no_wizard wrote: post #2

A fair question I have, I think, is are these new Dune movies any good? I always felt it would be best as a limited series so there was more time to expand on the characters / story / world and that movie runtimes - even though they're getting longer - just aren't a good medium for complex stories like this that rely on heavy background and backstory HBO paved the way for high value high production series, seems like…

>that movie runtimes - even though they're getting longer - just aren't a good medium for complex stories like this that rely on heavy background and backstory

Peter Jackson would disagree. If you can't get it done in a single "getting longer" movie runtime, just make it into 3. Harry Potter did it in 2, Twilight did it in 2, etc. So the precedent of using multiple movies is there.

Re: Dune: Part Two – First Look

#14

Post by AmericanChopper »

dmreedy wrote: post #4
no_wizard wrote: post #2

A fair question I have, I think, is are these new Dune movies any good? I always felt it would be best as a limited series so there was more time to expand on the characters / story / world and that movie runtimes - even though they're getting longer - just aren't a good medium for complex stories like this that rely on heavy background and backstory HBO paved the way for high value high production series, seems like…

I think the one we've seen so far had to pick and choose which pieces of the broader tangle of themes to engage with, by necessity of the constraints of the medium. But it did a very, very good job taking a movie-formattable slice out of the thing and presenting it with the honesty and scope of the source material. > HBO paved the way for high value high production series, HBO also paved the way to the superficializa…

Other than turning Paul into a crusader, what did they really leave out of the book? The dinner scene, and some of the more minor Leto scheming was all I could remember. Did they have the Jessica finding the conservatory scene? I can’t remember…

Re: Dune: Part Two – First Look

#15

Post by dylan604 »

poulpy123 wrote: post #9
no_wizard wrote: post #2

A fair question I have, I think, is are these new Dune movies any good? I always felt it would be best as a limited series so there was more time to expand on the characters / story / world and that movie runtimes - even though they're getting longer - just aren't a good medium for complex stories like this that rely on heavy background and backstory HBO paved the way for high value high production series, seems like…

I liked the first one. It was a breath of fresh air in an ocean of marvel and all remakes/reboots movies

You realize that the movie being discussed is essentially a reboot/remake as well, right?

Re: Dune: Part Two – First Look

#16

Post by tweezy »

dmreedy wrote: post #4
no_wizard wrote: post #2

A fair question I have, I think, is are these new Dune movies any good? I always felt it would be best as a limited series so there was more time to expand on the characters / story / world and that movie runtimes - even though they're getting longer - just aren't a good medium for complex stories like this that rely on heavy background and backstory HBO paved the way for high value high production series, seems like…

I think the one we've seen so far had to pick and choose which pieces of the broader tangle of themes to engage with, by necessity of the constraints of the medium. But it did a very, very good job taking a movie-formattable slice out of the thing and presenting it with the honesty and scope of the source material. > HBO paved the way for high value high production series, HBO also paved the way to the superficializa…

I might add an except for Station Eleven to that rule. It was an excellent adaptation imo.

Re: Dune: Part Two – First Look

#17

Post by dmreedy »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #7
dmreedy wrote: post #3

> To become a full-fledged Fremen, and lead them in a counterattack that will avenge his fallen family and defeat the powers corrupting the galaxy (Emphasis mine.) This is a very funny summary. I of course understand the nature of media reporting and the constraints of a piece like this. And so far Villeneuve has shown himself to be as trustworthy as they come with themes more complex than base moral plays. But, stil…

They compromised on complexity a bit when they de-islamified the Fremen and decided they would be better off as crusaders rather than jihadis, which kinda turns some of the central themes of the story on its head.

I don't necessarily disagree with the position that compromises were made, but

> better off as crusaders rather than jihadis

At the risk of sounding edgy, I'm not sure I see the distinction between these two things? My impression of Herbert is that the pseduo-arabism that he draped over his themes didn't serve as a moral judgement or a stand-in for motivation, but to provide some remove for his immediate audience (lot of assumptions in that phrase I realize) so that they can examine morality without getting immediately defensive?

He seemed interested in discussing Religion, the phenomenon. Not the phenomenon of a particular real instantiation.

Or is that what you meant, too?

Re: Dune: Part Two – First Look

#18

Post by viraptor »

no_wizard wrote: post #2

A fair question I have, I think, is are these new Dune movies any good? I always felt it would be best as a limited series so there was more time to expand on the characters / story / world and that movie runtimes - even though they're getting longer - just aren't a good medium for complex stories like this that rely on heavy background and backstory HBO paved the way for high value high production series, seems like…

That comment seems like 3 independent thoughts. In my opinion: yes the first part was great, yes it could cover more details as a series, yes a HBO style high value production would be cool to see.

The possibility of having something better does not make this movie bad.

If you can go into it accepting that: not everything will be covered, the book has lots of internal thoughts and little action which doesn't work well on a screen, the politics part was not skipped but wasn't given lots of time either - I think you'll have a good time.

Edit: Visually - it's amazing.

Re: Dune: Part Two – First Look

#19

Post by dmreedy »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #14
dmreedy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the one we've seen so far had to pick and choose which pieces of the broader tangle of themes to engage with, by necessity of the constraints of the medium. But it did a very, very good job taking a movie-formattable slice out of the thing and presenting it with the honesty and scope of the source material. > HBO paved the way for high value high production series, HBO also paved the way to the superficializa…

Other than turning Paul into a crusader, what did they really leave out of the book? The dinner scene, and some of the more minor Leto scheming was all I could remember. Did they have the Jessica finding the conservatory scene? I can’t remember…

They left out pretty much the entirety of the Butlerian Jihad and Orange Catholicism as themes motivating the world. Mentats are barely discussed even though they are present.

And yeah, no dinner scene, and no conservatory, as far as story telling beats

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