The headline reads like the setup to a true crime podcast. It took me a moment to figure out what they were actually trying to say.
I thought it was more like the premise to a Lost derivative TV show
More than a third of community college students have vanished
11–20 of 74 posts
Re: More than a third of community college students have vanished
#12It is a bit of paradox that community colleges are, in theory, what every talking head and commentator are asking colleges to be—direct, cheap, no frill, about the education only—and yet there is no other college type that is seeing a more precipitous enrollment drop off than community colleges and technical schools. The answer, and no one likes this, is what people say they want and what they actually want as voted…
I've taught at community colleges; many of the issues mentioned in the article are long-standing. So what's driving the change now?
The simplest answer is the most likely: the strong economy, including among relatively low wage, low skill workers.
Re: More than a third of community college students have vanished
#13It is a bit of paradox that community colleges are, in theory, what every talking head and commentator are asking colleges to be—direct, cheap, no frill, about the education only—and yet there is no other college type that is seeing a more precipitous enrollment drop off than community colleges and technical schools. The answer, and no one likes this, is what people say they want and what they actually want as voted…
I think that’s missing one big piece. What people really want cheap education that ends with a degree that is as well regarded as an Ivy or good state college degree. Community colleges, for better or worse, are seen as inferior education. So they are not equivalent to simply a cheaper option of more expensive schools.
Re: More than a third of community college students have vanished
#14The paintball wars can be brutal.
In all seriousness, the comments in this thread make me wonder if the show "Community" wasn't as much commentary as it was comedy.
Re: More than a third of community college students have vanished
#15It is a bit of paradox that community colleges are, in theory, what every talking head and commentator are asking colleges to be—direct, cheap, no frill, about the education only—and yet there is no other college type that is seeing a more precipitous enrollment drop off than community colleges and technical schools. The answer, and no one likes this, is what people say they want and what they actually want as voted…
The issue is network effects, though, right?
If community colleges could attract the best teachers (etc.), and provide the kind of education as stated, then perhaps they would be what people want.
The problem is the incentives of workers, academics, students, the state, etc. are not aligned.
Most students probably do want the best practical education to get them into the workforce effectively -- but those who can provide that education have no incentive to.
The best industry professionals are in industry, the best academics are researchers.
Re: More than a third of community college students have vanished
#16It is a bit of paradox that community colleges are, in theory, what every talking head and commentator are asking colleges to be—direct, cheap, no frill, about the education only—and yet there is no other college type that is seeing a more precipitous enrollment drop off than community colleges and technical schools. The answer, and no one likes this, is what people say they want and what they actually want as voted…
I've taught at community colleges; many of the issues mentioned in the article are long-standing. So what's driving the change now ? The simplest answer is the most likely: the strong economy, including among relatively low wage, low skill workers.
That is the correct answer here.
Re: More than a third of community college students have vanished
#17>“You need help with your classes and financial aid? Well, here, take a number and run from office to office and see if you can figure it out.” >“I’ve had to go out of my way to find people, and if they didn’t know the answer, they would send me to somebody else, usually by email.” Hearing back from the financial aid office, she said, can take a month. State schools are like this too.
>if they didn’t know the answer, they would send me to somebody else
That sounds like the ideal response, doesn't it?
We talk about kids not being prepared for the real-world, and this seems like a good example. The first student graduated high-school with a 4.0 GPA, but can't figure out what classes he should take? Some of us went to college pre-email; there was no way to communicate but going office to office to resolve issues..
If I had to guess, the low college completion rate and "employers [being] “lukewarm” about the quality of community college students who do manage to graduate" both stem from grade inflation.
Re: More than a third of community college students have vanished
#18Universities are about a few things:
1. Education - Inspiration and job training 2. High-achieving peer groups 3. Prestige and signalling 4. Fun and independence
Online courses do #1 better than CCs. Dorms are essential to #4, so CCs miss out on it. There is no prestige associated with CCs and the titular community isn't especially high achieving.
What value do CCs provide ?
Re: More than a third of community college students have vanished
#19It is a bit of paradox that community colleges are, in theory, what every talking head and commentator are asking colleges to be—direct, cheap, no frill, about the education only—and yet there is no other college type that is seeing a more precipitous enrollment drop off than community colleges and technical schools. The answer, and no one likes this, is what people say they want and what they actually want as voted…
I think that’s missing one big piece. What people really want cheap education that ends with a degree that is as well regarded as an Ivy or good state college degree. Community colleges, for better or worse, are seen as inferior education. So they are not equivalent to simply a cheaper option of more expensive schools.
There is usually a path for two years of cheaper community college with transferable credits to two final years at a state university.
Re: More than a third of community college students have vanished
#20I had a wonderful time at community college! (It helps that my community college had an amazing service department).
Even for people who don't finish a degree, it's still a great place to get exposure or make connections. And it's much cheaper to find out college isn't for you at community college.
Transfer programs though are a mess. The culprit are the 4-year universities - who actually punish you for not coming directly from high school. Your application is deprioritized, the requirements are much more stringent, and no one is there to help you.