Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

OpenVMS 9.2 for x86 is finally available for hobbyists

raymii.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 51 posts

Re: OpenVMS 9.2 for x86 is finally available for hobbyists

#11

Post by fredoralive »

johndoe0815 wrote: post #9
fredoralive wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems x86 rings don't quite work like a VAX’s, so they have to emulate them. The issues you have trying to run a Real OS on a Toy CPU… (ducks)

Interesting, did the VMS team publish something about the emulation? That would be interesting for my OS course...

The source of the bit about VMS only using 2 rings on x86 from the Wikipedia article is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8kcfvJ1Iec , which I did skim to check that source for what the differences were (it seems to be around page protection between rings[1], circa 14 minutes in). I assume it gives more information, but I don't have time to watch more of it.

[1] Before I checked I was under the misunderstanding that AMD64 had just got rid of the extra rings alongside stuff like BCD instructions, so was trying to find a source for that.

Re: OpenVMS 9.2 for x86 is finally available for hobbyists

#13

Post by kjellsbells »

zabzonk wrote: post #4

i used VMS in the very early 80s, when i was working at a college which was part of the university of london. i never cottoned on to it - that versioning file system (obviously designed to sell hard disks) and all that SYS$SYSTEM stuff (i mean - why?). and then i changed jobs somewhere else, using a dec-10, and discovered what a really horrible OS was like.

I feel your pain. Used to run IT at Birkbeck College and they were huge on VMS. IIRC the University of London library system at the time, Libertas, depended on VAX. As a UNIX person it was wild. But credit where it is due: that thing was bulletproof.

Re: OpenVMS 9.2 for x86 is finally available for hobbyists

#14

Post by vt240 »

zabzonk wrote: post #4

i used VMS in the very early 80s, when i was working at a college which was part of the university of london. i never cottoned on to it - that versioning file system (obviously designed to sell hard disks) and all that SYS$SYSTEM stuff (i mean - why?). and then i changed jobs somewhere else, using a dec-10, and discovered what a really horrible OS was like.

I had the exact opposite reaction. I grew up on UNIX. BSD, Solaris, HP-UX, then later Linux; though always as a user. The first time I ran into VMS, I fell in love. It was just such a different experience. Granted that OpenVMS has been trapped in a bubble, and that using even the latest versions, feels like you've been teleported back to 1990. I'll be really interested to see, now that the platform is much more accessible, if they can build a community of users again.

Re: OpenVMS 9.2 for x86 is finally available for hobbyists

#15

Post by zabzonk »

kjellsbells wrote: post #13
zabzonk wrote: post #4

i used VMS in the very early 80s, when i was working at a college which was part of the university of london. i never cottoned on to it - that versioning file system (obviously designed to sell hard disks) and all that SYS$SYSTEM stuff (i mean - why?). and then i changed jobs somewhere else, using a dec-10, and discovered what a really horrible OS was like.

I feel your pain. Used to run IT at Birkbeck College and they were huge on VMS. IIRC the University of London library system at the time, Libertas, depended on VAX. As a UNIX person it was wild. But credit where it is due: that thing was bulletproof.

well, the vax was certainly a big upgrade from what we had before - a modular one. which frankly was a bit bizzare: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Technology_Limited

this was at queen elizabeth college, off high street kensington. the place i moved to with a dec-10 was middlesex poly.

Re: OpenVMS 9.2 for x86 is finally available for hobbyists

#16

Post by zabzonk »

vt240 wrote: post #14
zabzonk wrote: post #4

i used VMS in the very early 80s, when i was working at a college which was part of the university of london. i never cottoned on to it - that versioning file system (obviously designed to sell hard disks) and all that SYS$SYSTEM stuff (i mean - why?). and then i changed jobs somewhere else, using a dec-10, and discovered what a really horrible OS was like.

I had the exact opposite reaction. I grew up on UNIX. BSD, Solaris, HP-UX, then later Linux; though always as a user. The first time I ran into VMS, I fell in love. It was just such a different experience. Granted that OpenVMS has been trapped in a bubble, and that using even the latest versions, feels like you've been teleported back to 1990. I'll be really interested to see, now that the platform is much more acces…

> It was just such a different experience.

yes, but a better one???

having said that, there has always been a huge soft spot in my heart for IBM VM/CMS.

Re: OpenVMS 9.2 for x86 is finally available for hobbyists

#17

Post by PopePompus »

zabzonk wrote: post #4

i used VMS in the very early 80s, when i was working at a college which was part of the university of london. i never cottoned on to it - that versioning file system (obviously designed to sell hard disks) and all that SYS$SYSTEM stuff (i mean - why?). and then i changed jobs somewhere else, using a dec-10, and discovered what a really horrible OS was like.

I used VMS in the late 70s and early 80s. I started using Unix too, in the late 80s. What was wonderful about VMS at that time, relative to Unix, was that DEC sold a large set of books, the "pumpkin books", which explained everything you needed to know to do just about anything with the systems (there was also an "internals" book). In contrast, at that time, if you wanted to learn to do something difficult in Unix, you essentially had to go find a Grey Beard to tell you how to do it. The internet and Linux changed all that of course, but before that happened learning VMS was a joy and learning Unix was a pain.

Re: OpenVMS 9.2 for x86 is finally available for hobbyists

#18

Post by PopePompus »

tyingq wrote: post #8
shrubble wrote: post #6

It's certainly a different take on operating systems... will be interesting to see if there is any interest now that you can spin it up as a VM on your KVM server box. Can't figure out the RAM needed to run it from the notes I have read, however...

From "VMS Software / Documentation / x86-64 V9.2 Installation Guide" https://docs.vmssoftware.com/vsi-openvms-x86-64-v92-installa... 1.2.1. Recommended Settings for Virtual Machines VSI recommends that your OpenVMS virtual machine be configured with: Memory Minimum of 6 GB Minimum Number of CPUs: 2

How sad. VMS originally ran on a VAX 11/780 which maxed out at 8 MB. Now it apparently needs almost 1000 times more memory.

Re: OpenVMS 9.2 for x86 is finally available for hobbyists

#19

Post by zabzonk »

PopePompus wrote: post #17
zabzonk wrote: post #4

i used VMS in the very early 80s, when i was working at a college which was part of the university of london. i never cottoned on to it - that versioning file system (obviously designed to sell hard disks) and all that SYS$SYSTEM stuff (i mean - why?). and then i changed jobs somewhere else, using a dec-10, and discovered what a really horrible OS was like.

I used VMS in the late 70s and early 80s. I started using Unix too, in the late 80s. What was wonderful about VMS at that time, relative to Unix, was that DEC sold a large set of books, the "pumpkin books", which explained everything you needed to know to do just about anything with the systems (there was also an "internals" book). In contrast, at that time, if you wanted to learn to do something difficult in Unix, y…

you should have seen the stack of manuals we got with our IBM 4381s - needed a whole room to store them in. and they were great.

as for unix, i learned most from a very cheap book written by mike banahan, which told you everything you reallly needed to know - everything is a file etc.

i actually worked with mike for several years at the instruction set - not always easily:

me: why do i have to work with mike???

my boss: because you are the only person in the company that hasn't tried to strangle him.

i suppose i'm too nice - much the same was said when i was a microbiology technician in edinburgh in the 1970s regarding one of the consultants, about whom i did have serious death-plans.

Re: OpenVMS 9.2 for x86 is finally available for hobbyists

#20

Post by Aloha »

PopePompus wrote: post #18
tyingq wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From "VMS Software / Documentation / x86-64 V9.2 Installation Guide" https://docs.vmssoftware.com/vsi-openvms-x86-64-v92-installa... 1.2.1. Recommended Settings for Virtual Machines VSI recommends that your OpenVMS virtual machine be configured with: Memory Minimum of 6 GB Minimum Number of CPUs: 2

How sad. VMS originally ran on a VAX 11/780 which maxed out at 8 MB. Now it apparently needs almost 1000 times more memory.

VMS in 2020 is a vastly different beast than the VMS that ran on 11/780
Post reply on HN