Electricity Prices by Country • Hacker News Board

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#11

Post by sokoloff » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 6:05 PM UTC

TrackerFF wrote: post #7

Norway (where I'm from) is somewhat complex, because the country is divided into five regions, and the northernmost regions have poor transfer capability to the southern regions. The southern regions, however, have quite good transfer capacity to export (to European countries), so those regions often have to compete with export prices. What this means, is that the prices can vary significantly withing Norway. While w…

> we up in northern Norway paid around $0.0005 / kWh last summer

Is that figure accurate? It’s so crazy low that it would lead me to expect the area to be saturated with aluminum smelting and other high electric consuming operations.

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#12

Post by marcodiego » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 6:06 PM UTC

Prices of anything "by country" should be normalized by local average income. Ideally, for a fairer comparison, a good metric is "how many hours of work of a median citizen for each unity" of such a good.

EDIT: article does something similar to that: https://www.electricrate.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/coun...

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#13

Post by KomoD » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 6:10 PM UTC

martinald wrote: post #6

Not accurate at all. UK consumers are paying approximately 34p/kWh - 43c/kWh. Nearly twice what it says here.

Because these are not consumer prices, they're datacenter prices.

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#14

Post by yuuuuyu » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 6:13 PM UTC

This is overly simplified. A few aspects come to mind that have huge effects, in orders of magnitude:

* Price differences during day/week/seasons. Cold day? Electricity can be 2-3x higher than the day before. Lots of sun/wind? Price plummets. ...

* Price differences in regions. Norway, Sweden, Germany, those alone have huge differences in electricity prices depending on where you live.

* Pricing relative to economic output, i.e. GDP. Or household income.

There are surely more. This really strikes me as a propaganda page as the data is too oversimplified to be usefulfor real discussions, but enough to point to it to further an agenda. ("See, we shouldn't have turned off those nuclear plants, see how expensive electricityhas become!")

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#15

Post by yuuuuyu » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 6:14 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #11

TrackerFF wrote: post #7

Norway (where I'm from) is somewhat complex, because the country is divided into five regions, and the northernmost regions have poor transfer capability to the southern regions. The southern regions, however, have quite good transfer capacity to export (to European countries), so those regions often have to compete with export prices. What this means, is that the prices can vary significantly withing Norway. While w…

> we up in northern Norway paid around $0.0005 / kWh last summer Is that figure accurate? It’s so crazy low that it would lead me to expect the area to be saturated with aluminum smelting and other high electric consuming operations.

Transport issues extend to goods too.

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#16

Post by yuuuuyu » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 6:15 PM UTC

martinald wrote: post #6

Not accurate at all. UK consumers are paying approximately 34p/kWh - 43c/kWh. Nearly twice what it says here.

Not accurate for Sweden either. Pricing in Stockholm region last weeks was 1/2 to 1/3 of what's in the list.

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#17

Post by Scoundreller » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 6:18 PM UTC

Another complication with these numbers are the delivery/connection fees.

In Toronto, my marginal rate is probably around US$0.08/kWh, but my usage in a double occupancy condo unit with the connection fee works out to US$0.22/kWh on average.

One would hope that this just means I’m cross-subsidizing heavier users but in reality my metering provider is owned by a partnership in Bermuda. In reality, some ??? shareholders are raking it in on a poorly planned out government “green” project to meter small users.

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#18

Post by simfree » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 6:32 PM UTC

TrackerFF wrote: post #7

Norway (where I'm from) is somewhat complex, because the country is divided into five regions, and the northernmost regions have poor transfer capability to the southern regions. The southern regions, however, have quite good transfer capacity to export (to European countries), so those regions often have to compete with export prices. What this means, is that the prices can vary significantly withing Norway. While w…

Those hydroelectric dams need better grid infrastructure to enable easy export!

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#19

Post by simfree » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 6:36 PM UTC

Scoundreller wrote: post #17

Another complication with these numbers are the delivery/connection fees. In Toronto, my marginal rate is probably around US$0.08/kWh, but my usage in a double occupancy condo unit with the connection fee works out to US$0.22/kWh on average. One would hope that this just means I’m cross-subsidizing heavier users but in reality my metering provider is owned by a partnership in Bermuda. In reality, some ??? shareholder…

Is that the base daily meter rate or monthly meter rate causing the extra $0.14/kwh cost? Sounds like your using very little power.

Local grids are generally a fixed cost to maintain, if there was no base charge your neighbors would be subsidizing the maintenance of your connection to the grid. Separating fixed cost from marginal cost is the equitable solution in this case.

Re: Electricity Prices by Country

#20

Post by throw0101c » Sat, Apr 08, 2023, 6:37 PM UTC

Scoundreller wrote: post #17

Another complication with these numbers are the delivery/connection fees. In Toronto, my marginal rate is probably around US$0.08/kWh, but my usage in a double occupancy condo unit with the connection fee works out to US$0.22/kWh on average. One would hope that this just means I’m cross-subsidizing heavier users but in reality my metering provider is owned by a partnership in Bermuda. In reality, some ??? shareholder…

Toronto Hydro† also has time-of-use rates:

* https://www.torontohydro.com/for-home/rates

† Mostly due to historical reason of early generator stations being hydro-electric (water falls), electricity is called "hydro" in many parts of Canada.