Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google and Amazon Struggle to Lay Off Workers in Europe Due to Labor Laws

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 72 posts

Re: Google and Amazon Struggle to Lay Off Workers in Europe Due to Labor Laws

#11

Post by refurb »

ibnbutlAn wrote: post #3

EU labor laws protect the workers. I dont get why US Americans often think these laws dont benefit the workers.

Just like rent control does more than just "control the price of rent" because landlords change their behavior to optimize their financial returns, so do labor laws.

Strong worker protection ends up making the cost of hiring new workers higher. Companies react to those costs by a number of means like delaying hiring, hiring contractors first, firing within the probation period when they might not have normally, etc, etc. Whenever the laws are changed, a new "optimum approach" is developed.

And like rent control, labor laws often benefit the people who already rent/have a job. For people who are looking to rent/looking for a job, they can make it harder as the barriers to entry just got higher.

It's not right or wrong, it's just a trade off.

Re: Google and Amazon Struggle to Lay Off Workers in Europe Due to Labor Laws

#13

Post by bjoli »

ibnbutlAn wrote: post #3

EU labor laws protect the workers. I dont get why US Americans often think these laws dont benefit the workers.

I think it is because it benefits workers differently. People with high salaries would usually get even higher salaries in the states, whereas people with low-earning jobs would get less paid with a less stable employment. The HN selection is just skewed.

A friend of mine with a VERY sick disabled kid which prevented her from working night shifts in a home for the elderly would probably have gotten sacked by now hadn't it been for the Swedish labour laws that mandate that the employer tries to find a different position within the same qualifications in the same organisation. Sure, the union had to help and remind them of that obligation, but in the end it worked out for the best for my friend.

I don't think the laws are there to protect someone like me that could get another job, but to protect people like my friend.

Re: Google and Amazon Struggle to Lay Off Workers in Europe Due to Labor Laws

#14

Post by hsjqllzlfkf »

nostrademons wrote: post #5
ibnbutlAn wrote: post #3

EU labor laws protect the workers. I dont get why US Americans often think these laws dont benefit the workers.

They level out both the upside and the downside. If you can never fire people, you're going to be very very cautious about who you hire in the first place. That makes it much harder to get companies into a bidding war that'll actually raise your wages. I've had a few European teammates, and they usually come to the U.S. because they can make 3-5x what they could in Europe. You'll see that a lot in HN comments, where…

> I've had a few European teammates, and they usually come to the U.S. because they can make 3-5x what they could in Europe.

And as we know, the only difference between us and Europe is labor laws. /s

Re: Google and Amazon Struggle to Lay Off Workers in Europe Due to Labor Laws

#15

Post by hsjqllzlfkf »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #7
ibnbutlAn wrote: post #3

EU labor laws protect the workers. I dont get why US Americans often think these laws dont benefit the workers.

Well, the salaries are about 30-50% what they are in the US. Maybe it's related.

Maybe it's related, maybe it's due to the fact that the cost of almost everything in the US is higher.

There's many factors in this conversation

Re: Google and Amazon Struggle to Lay Off Workers in Europe Due to Labor Laws

#17

Post by TechBro8615 »

hsjqllzlfkf wrote: post #15
TechBro8615 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the salaries are about 30-50% what they are in the US. Maybe it's related.

Maybe it's related, maybe it's due to the fact that the cost of almost everything in the US is higher. There's many factors in this conversation

So companies just pay you out of the goodness of their heart because you need the money?

Re: Google and Amazon Struggle to Lay Off Workers in Europe Due to Labor Laws

#18

Post by TexanFeller »

hsjqllzlfkf wrote: post #14
nostrademons wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They level out both the upside and the downside. If you can never fire people, you're going to be very very cautious about who you hire in the first place. That makes it much harder to get companies into a bidding war that'll actually raise your wages. I've had a few European teammates, and they usually come to the U.S. because they can make 3-5x what they could in Europe. You'll see that a lot in HN comments, where…

> I've had a few European teammates, and they usually come to the U.S. because they can make 3-5x what they could in Europe. And as we know, the only difference between us and Europe is labor laws. /s

I've worked with many UK/Europeans. They are quite similar to us in skills and productivity aside from labor laws(excessive vacations, months/years of parental leave, impossible to fire etc.)

Re: Google and Amazon Struggle to Lay Off Workers in Europe Due to Labor Laws

#19

Post by TexanFeller »

ibnbutlAn wrote: post #3

EU labor laws protect the workers. I dont get why US Americans often think these laws dont benefit the workers.

Strong worker protections are a major reason that big tech and many other industries have a much smaller presence in Europe and pay far less to Europeans. You're worth less if you might be absent on parental leave for a year at a time. You're higher risk to hire if you can't be fired easily etc. Protections have a cost. My friends that moved to UK/Europe get half their former salary and have much higher living expenses and taxes. I also have several friends that moved to TX because compensation in Europe is terrible.

Re: Google and Amazon Struggle to Lay Off Workers in Europe Due to Labor Laws

#20

Post by dingusdew »

TexanFeller wrote: post #19
ibnbutlAn wrote: post #3

EU labor laws protect the workers. I dont get why US Americans often think these laws dont benefit the workers.

Strong worker protections are a major reason that big tech and many other industries have a much smaller presence in Europe and pay far less to Europeans. You're worth less if you might be absent on parental leave for a year at a time. You're higher risk to hire if you can't be fired easily etc. Protections have a cost. My friends that moved to UK/Europe get half their former salary and have much higher living expens…

[dead]
Post reply on HN