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Donald Trump Under Arrest

cnn.com

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Re: Donald Trump Under Arrest

#11

Post by dnissley »

_8j50 wrote: post #6

So much for equality under law. People spend weeks without being released on their own recognizance even for petty traffic violations. Handcuffs, orange suits and sleeping on concrete for days for the rest of us. Why bother to begin with? Which in your opinion is worse? The guilty getting away with their crimes or being punished unequally with high profile defendants getting the "white glove" treatment and a joke of…

How have others who have been indicted of falsifying business records been treated?

Here's a list of cases: https://www.justsecurity.org/85605/survey-of-past-new-york-f...

Just googling around a bit about these it's very hard to say because most of the time this type of crime is extremely minor news or not news at all.

Re: Donald Trump Under Arrest

#12

Post by _8j50 »

andrewflnr wrote: post #7
_8j50 wrote: post #6

So much for equality under law. People spend weeks without being released on their own recognizance even for petty traffic violations. Handcuffs, orange suits and sleeping on concrete for days for the rest of us. Why bother to begin with? Which in your opinion is worse? The guilty getting away with their crimes or being punished unequally with high profile defendants getting the "white glove" treatment and a joke of…

Delayed justice is still a disincentive to future people who might try the same tricks. QED. > It shouldn't matter how it appears or... It does, though. It objectively matters in terms of actual, predictable outcomes. Yeah it sucks. Deal with it. Despair won't make it better.

> Delayed justice

You mean punishment to prevent crime in the future. That isn't justice, is it worth it given the cost?

> It does, though. It objectively matters in terms of actual, predictable outcomes.

You don't get what I am saying, yes it matters in a general sense but for the purpose of administering justice it does not matter and it is irrelevant. It isn't despair either what I am saying, I am simply stating the fact that this is injustice being portrayed as justice, a perversion of justice if you will.

Re: Donald Trump Under Arrest

#13

Post by _8j50 »

yucky wrote: post #8
_8j50 wrote: post #6

So much for equality under law. People spend weeks without being released on their own recognizance even for petty traffic violations. Handcuffs, orange suits and sleeping on concrete for days for the rest of us. Why bother to begin with? Which in your opinion is worse? The guilty getting away with their crimes or being punished unequally with high profile defendants getting the "white glove" treatment and a joke of…

Bail is designed to ensure you show back up for proceedings, and to protect the community if you present a danger to others. If you don't present a danger to others and you aren't running anywhere, then personal recognizance makes sense. It's an imperfect system but the solution is to give personal recognizance bail to more people not fewer.

Ok, I have no problem with him being released. I have a problem with him skipping the line and being out in an hour or two. Even serious white collar criminals spend a night before even seeing a judge and making a plea.

Re: Donald Trump Under Arrest

#14

Post by _8j50 »

dnissley wrote: post #11
_8j50 wrote: post #6

So much for equality under law. People spend weeks without being released on their own recognizance even for petty traffic violations. Handcuffs, orange suits and sleeping on concrete for days for the rest of us. Why bother to begin with? Which in your opinion is worse? The guilty getting away with their crimes or being punished unequally with high profile defendants getting the "white glove" treatment and a joke of…

How have others who have been indicted of falsifying business records been treated? Here's a list of cases: https://www.justsecurity.org/85605/survey-of-past-new-york-f... Just googling around a bit about these it's very hard to say because most of the time this type of crime is extremely minor news or not news at all.

The indictment is not the problem but how he just strolls in and out like it was a dentist appointment all for appearances sake. Who else gets treated this way with their personal bodyguards even accompanying them through the whole thing.

Re: Donald Trump Under Arrest

#15

Post by Zanneth »

_8j50 wrote: post #4
PaulHoule wrote: post #3

He's not "under arrest", he's been indicted. He was free to leave after the hearing.

He was remanded to police custody. He is under arrest until the judge releases him on his own recognizance.

I don’t understand. How is he under arrest if he was able to leave right after?

Re: Donald Trump Under Arrest

#16

Post by operatingthetan »

Zanneth wrote: post #15
_8j50 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was remanded to police custody. He is under arrest until the judge releases him on his own recognizance.

I don’t understand. How is he under arrest if he was able to leave right after?

Since this was carefully planned he was arraigned right after being arrested.

Re: Donald Trump Under Arrest

#17

Post by andrewflnr »

_8j50 wrote: post #12
andrewflnr wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delayed justice is still a disincentive to future people who might try the same tricks. QED. > It shouldn't matter how it appears or... It does, though. It objectively matters in terms of actual, predictable outcomes. Yeah it sucks. Deal with it. Despair won't make it better.

> Delayed justice You mean punishment to prevent crime in the future. That isn't justice, is it worth it given the cost? > It does, though. It objectively matters in terms of actual, predictable outcomes. You don't get what I am saying, yes it matters in a general sense but for the purpose of administering justice it does not matter and it is irrelevant. It isn't despair either what I am saying, I am simply stating t…

What cost is being incurred here that wouldn't be even higher with actual justice? What do you actually want the authorities to do that is both politically feasible and would have a better outcome? If they overreach too hard, we won't even get the punishment, and the precedent is set that it's fine to use the presidency for personal gain. That's the cost that's truly too high.

Re: Donald Trump Under Arrest

#18

Post by jfengel »

infamouscow wrote: post #5

I only see this backfiring in the most unexpected and hilarious way possible. I certainly hope everyone cheering for this has considered the possibility of what happens if nothing comes of this case and Trump wins in 2024.

Are you suggesting that he would use his executive authority to punish people for cheering that he was arrested?

I would consider that an absolute bar to him being elected, regardless of who he would punish. The fact that many people would approve of that mis-use of power -- perhaps enough to get him elected -- implies that democracy itself has failed.

Of course such people also seem convinced that the indictment here is faulty -- either that he's not guilty of the crimes, or that they are petty, and are only being prosecuted for political reasons.

So from their point of view, democracy has already failed. Which is what he's been telling them for three years.

Re: Donald Trump Under Arrest

#19

Post by infamouscow »

jfengel wrote: post #18
infamouscow wrote: post #5

I only see this backfiring in the most unexpected and hilarious way possible. I certainly hope everyone cheering for this has considered the possibility of what happens if nothing comes of this case and Trump wins in 2024.

Are you suggesting that he would use his executive authority to punish people for cheering that he was arrested? I would consider that an absolute bar to him being elected, regardless of who he would punish. The fact that many people would approve of that mis-use of power -- perhaps enough to get him elected -- implies that democracy itself has failed. Of course such people also seem convinced that the indictment her…

From a red vs blue politics perspective, team blue should not be surprised if a vindictive Trump uses this precedent to go after Biden and Obama for equally stupid nonsense.

Re: Donald Trump Under Arrest

#20

Post by _8j50 »

andrewflnr wrote: post #17
_8j50 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Delayed justice You mean punishment to prevent crime in the future. That isn't justice, is it worth it given the cost? > It does, though. It objectively matters in terms of actual, predictable outcomes. You don't get what I am saying, yes it matters in a general sense but for the purpose of administering justice it does not matter and it is irrelevant. It isn't despair either what I am saying, I am simply stating t…

What cost is being incurred here that wouldn't be even higher with actual justice? What do you actually want the authorities to do that is both politically feasible and would have a better outcome? If they overreach too hard, we won't even get the punishment, and the precedent is set that it's fine to use the presidency for personal gain. That's the cost that's truly too high.

I think you highlighted the core problem of political practicality here. Neither the precedent set, politics nor the chances of succeesful prosecution should override the very critical thing that gives prosecutors and the courts authority to prosecute, judge and punish people to begin with: that they administer justice and they do so equally.

I would much rather prefer everyone be treated nicely like donald than donald be treated as harshly as others.

But the end goal is not to punish trump at all costs regardless of what he has done. You can kill someone and be justified under the right context! The purpose of this system in theory and practice should be equal administration of justice which begins before you are are indicted and arressted and ends at completion of punishment or being found not guilty.

If others would spend days in jail, so should donald. If others get a slap on the wrist or something worse so should donald.

I mean he literally extorted a foreign head of state over military aid and even after his time in office he has not been prosecuted. Again, justice keeps taking the back sear when it comes to trump, that is my frustration, how america has devalued it.

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