Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO • Hacker News Board

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#11

Post by GalenErso » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 1:23 PM UTC

motohagiography wrote: post #6

[flagged]

"If his former exes asked for a restraining order against him, what incentive or assurance does he have for allowing them to break up with him?"

The problem is Russia. Russia could be a normal country like its neighbors and make money from trading goods while wooing foreign investors, but Putin took the history books he read too seriously and thinks he can pull another round of territorial conquests.

I don't see how other countries joining a defensive pact "mitigates" Russian sovereignty. No one is encroaching on Russia's borders.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#12

Post by ethanbond » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 1:24 PM UTC

motohagiography wrote: post #6

[flagged]

On what planet does a country have a say over the territories that used to be part of the same defunct empire it was part of?

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#13

Post by blululu » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 1:24 PM UTC

motohagiography wrote: post #6

[flagged]

Invading the Baltics is generally a bad idea since it risks starting WWIII. I think you are overlooking the sovereignty of those former territories. Russia’s sovereignty is only mitigated in so far is it includes the right to stage military interventions in its neighbors.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#14

Post by vasac » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 1:27 PM UTC

GalenErso wrote: post #11

motohagiography wrote: post #6

[flagged]

"If his former exes asked for a restraining order against him, what incentive or assurance does he have for allowing them to break up with him?" The problem is Russia. Russia could be a normal country like its neighbors and make money from trading goods while wooing foreign investors, but Putin took the history books he read too seriously and thinks he can pull another round of territorial conquests. I don't see how…

[flagged]

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#15

Post by chinathrow » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 1:27 PM UTC

The_Colonel wrote: post #4

Finland got de-Finlandized at last. Which is what the expansion of NATO was always about. NATO isn't a threat to Russia itself - if Russia seriously feared NATO aggression, it wouldn't voluntarily demilitarize its NATO borders during the past 13 months. NATO expansion just neutralizes Russian ability to force its will upon its neighbors through threat of aggression (or in case like Ukraine through the use of aggressi…

> Finland got de-Finlandized at last.

What does this even mean?

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#16

Post by GalenErso » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 1:27 PM UTC

The_Colonel wrote: post #4

Finland got de-Finlandized at last. Which is what the expansion of NATO was always about. NATO isn't a threat to Russia itself - if Russia seriously feared NATO aggression, it wouldn't voluntarily demilitarize its NATO borders during the past 13 months. NATO expansion just neutralizes Russian ability to force its will upon its neighbors through threat of aggression (or in case like Ukraine through the use of aggressi…

I don't buy the idea that it was a mistake for NATO to allow former Soviet bloc countries to join, because it would supposedly encroach on Russia's sphere of influence or increase tensions with Russia.

Spheres of influence are gained through economic muscle and cultural power now, not force of arms.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#17

Post by madspindel » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 1:27 PM UTC

sprash wrote: post #8

[flagged]

Russia would never attack Ukraine if it was part of Nato.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#18

Post by dantyti » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 1:28 PM UTC

chinathrow wrote: post #15

The_Colonel wrote: post #4

Finland got de-Finlandized at last. Which is what the expansion of NATO was always about. NATO isn't a threat to Russia itself - if Russia seriously feared NATO aggression, it wouldn't voluntarily demilitarize its NATO borders during the past 13 months. NATO expansion just neutralizes Russian ability to force its will upon its neighbors through threat of aggression (or in case like Ukraine through the use of aggressi…

> Finland got de-Finlandized at last. What does this even mean?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandization

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#19

Post by tcard » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 1:28 PM UTC

chinathrow wrote: post #15

The_Colonel wrote: post #4

Finland got de-Finlandized at last. Which is what the expansion of NATO was always about. NATO isn't a threat to Russia itself - if Russia seriously feared NATO aggression, it wouldn't voluntarily demilitarize its NATO borders during the past 13 months. NATO expansion just neutralizes Russian ability to force its will upon its neighbors through threat of aggression (or in case like Ukraine through the use of aggressi…

> Finland got de-Finlandized at last. What does this even mean?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandization

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#20

Post by Auracle » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 1:28 PM UTC

khuey wrote: post #10

motohagiography wrote: post #6

[flagged]

The smart view of that is that regardless of whatever ridiculous arguments for Russian imperialism people want to engage in Russia is not physically capable of conquering the Baltic states.

*Without using their nukes