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Cigna saves millions by having its doctors reject claims without reading them

propublica.org

11–20 of 434 posts

Re: Cigna saves millions by having its doctors reject claims without reading them

#11

And still Cigna’s profit margins are low single digit percentages. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/CI/cigna-group/pro... Wonder what premiums and out of pocket maximums would have to be if there were fewer denials.

If they are paying out huge sums to their c-suite, giving them stock left and right, and enriching the company through stock schemes or dividend payouts, unjustly, perhaps their compensation shouldn't be so rich?

https://www.statnews.com/2022/05/12/health-insurance-ceos-ra...

Re: Cigna saves millions by having its doctors reject claims without reading them

#12

And still Cigna’s profit margins are low single digit percentages. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/CI/cigna-group/pro... Wonder what premiums and out of pocket maximums would have to be if there were fewer denials.

15 years ago I worked for a "non-profit" health insurance company that was a Blue Cross Blue Shield affiliate/franchise. The CEO made $2.1m/year while the other VPs were raking in > $1m. The IT organization was as backward as they come - 200+ full time employees. I got in trouble for trying to introduce using source control to their developers. Beyond that, they used Excel spreadsheets as the source of truth for their healthcare plans...and the spreadsheets fed the claims processing system. There were 20 dedicated employees to managing Excel spreadsheets.

Re: Cigna saves millions by having its doctors reject claims without reading them

#13

“We thought it might fall into a legal gray zone,” said the former Cigna official, who helped conceive the program. “We sent the idea to legal, and they sent it back saying it was OK.” Reading this article is just maddening. I've been dealing with different insurers for the past 7 years or so, and it's my experience they must all do something similar. Anyone with any kind of serious health condition is regularly driv…

Wife is a nurse. Required surgery for lifesaving/severe disability (inherited congenital, killed her father). Insurance was Aetna and Hospital Self Insured. Surgery recommended by world class surgeon she worked with.

Finally pre-approved on 3rd appeal after 8 months and 150pages of documentation of every piece of every single communication (who, when, response, expected next contact) only weeks before surgery scheduled >6 months before. First rejection was automatic, second was revealed to be a dermatologist, third was a gynecologist. (They really hated that we figured out who the person was, their specialty, the state they worked in, and pending disciplinary actions).

Standard answer is we can't tell you why you were rejected (code only) because the criteria are from a third party and their review document is proprietary. When you find an online leaked document with the same code it says "unnecessary cosmetic surgery". Wrong contact numbers are provided, people go on vacation and do not respond for weeks, "that person doesn't work here".

If you're not a professional in the field with time on your hands and a detail oriented A-hole, you will be denied anything expensive that isn't considered immediately lifesaving at a trauma ICU recommended by the attending.

After pre-approved surgery with excessive blood loss and an extra 12 hours in recovery... Overcharge/All-claims-denied. Multiple appeals until involving Hospital CFO who agrees to split the extra (self-insured) cost of the insurer and get the final insurance reimbursement check... it is $3k less than promised (hospital paid the correct amount). Surgeon was going to start charging late fees and interest or send it to collection after 4 months.

Is it worth fighting any more? No.

Re: Cigna saves millions by having its doctors reject claims without reading them

#14

And still Cigna’s profit margins are low single digit percentages. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/CI/cigna-group/pro... Wonder what premiums and out of pocket maximums would have to be if there were fewer denials.

If they are paying out huge sums to their c-suite, giving them stock left and right, and enriching the company through stock schemes or dividend payouts, unjustly, perhaps their compensation shouldn't be so rich? https://www.statnews.com/2022/05/12/health-insurance-ceos-ra...

C-suite, board members, a bunch of "foundations", probably some for-profit contracting services for IT and accounting (also managed by the c-suite, probably). Unraveling health insurance admin costs is probably similar to Panama Papers level of financial engineering, especially after the ACA capped profit margins, the companies just turned to malicious compliance.

Re: Cigna saves millions by having its doctors reject claims without reading them

#16

And still Cigna’s profit margins are low single digit percentages. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/CI/cigna-group/pro... Wonder what premiums and out of pocket maximums would have to be if there were fewer denials.

If they are paying out huge sums to their c-suite, giving them stock left and right, and enriching the company through stock schemes or dividend payouts, unjustly, perhaps their compensation shouldn't be so rich? https://www.statnews.com/2022/05/12/health-insurance-ceos-ra...

I think we can just go a step further and kill their entire toxic business model. After decades of observing how it behaves, it should be pretty clear that it's always going to devolve down to privately-ran death panels.

Re: Cigna saves millions by having its doctors reject claims without reading them

#17
post #7

Privatized health care as a person's sole option for care is an absolute dystopian nightmare. Any system that requires balancing human suffering against profitability is inevitably going to optimize for profitability. The fact that this is even a thing is mind boggling.

Public health care can be similarly dystopian in other ways: Very long wait times due to limited resources, subpar medical care, limited prescription options and drugs, beauracracy.

No matter what society you live, the advice is the same: try not to get sick.

Re: Cigna saves millions by having its doctors reject claims without reading them

#19
post #17
post #7

Privatized health care as a person's sole option for care is an absolute dystopian nightmare. Any system that requires balancing human suffering against profitability is inevitably going to optimize for profitability. The fact that this is even a thing is mind boggling.

Public health care can be similarly dystopian in other ways: Very long wait times due to limited resources, subpar medical care, limited prescription options and drugs, beauracracy. No matter what society you live, the advice is the same: try not to get sick.

Ah, yes, have a privatized public sector, use the gained funds to lobby in other countries, pushing a ideology that destroys public sector/services, use the result of ones own actions to push the conversion to more privatized public sector. The ultimate glider gun ideology.

Re: Cigna saves millions by having its doctors reject claims without reading them

#20
post #17
post #7

Privatized health care as a person's sole option for care is an absolute dystopian nightmare. Any system that requires balancing human suffering against profitability is inevitably going to optimize for profitability. The fact that this is even a thing is mind boggling.

Public health care can be similarly dystopian in other ways: Very long wait times due to limited resources, subpar medical care, limited prescription options and drugs, beauracracy. No matter what society you live, the advice is the same: try not to get sick.

> Very long wait times due to limited resources, subpar medical care, limited prescription options and drugs, beauracracy.

those are all there because the people that created the system did not think paying for it was good enough. it doesn't have to be that way. and even with wait times being long you still eventually get it. in the privatized system if you are poor and have bad health care you don't get it at all.

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