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You can't tell people anything (2004)

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Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#11

Post by jackpirate »

ozim wrote: post #10
outworlder wrote: post #9

> When people ask me about my life’s ambitions, I often joke that my goal is to become independently wealthy so that I can afford to get some work done. Mainly that’s about being able to do things without having to explain them first, so that the finished product can be the explanation. I think this will be a major labor saving improvement. Agreed. The worst part is when they nod and pretend they got it and then that…

For me worst part is just like in article that I have to explain to people first and only then I can start.

One of the reasons I've intentionally decided not become independently wealthy is that I want to have to explain to other people why I'm doing things. Part of my work is "charity-ish", and by not being able to do things on my own, I'm forced me to improve my communication skills and involve other people in these charity activities. I think that ultimately improves the final outcome, even if the process is immensely more frustrating.

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#12

Post by msufan »

As an elementary teacher, my spin on this same take was that you couldn't tell people things with much success, but there were two ways to break through: stories and games. If you could get your message across in story form or have kids discover it through a gamified (or experiential) setting, that generally worked.

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#13

Post by mewpmewp2 »

jackpirate wrote: post #11
ozim wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me worst part is just like in article that I have to explain to people first and only then I can start.

One of the reasons I've intentionally decided not become independently wealthy is that I want to have to explain to other people why I'm doing things. Part of my work is "charity-ish", and by not being able to do things on my own, I'm forced me to improve my communication skills and involve other people in these charity activities. I think that ultimately improves the final outcome, even if the process is immensely m…

Could be so with charity or depending on the field I suppose. I think innovating or figuring out new tech is different as if something is easily understood and explainable, it's probably already done, and if you have a great idea that hasn't been done it's probably because it's really hard to explain or to sell to others on it.

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#14

Post by eat_veggies »

This is the anarchist theory of the unity of means and ends: you can't tell people anything, including what a better society looks like (nor can you impose it on anyone). You have to try to build and live that society in the present in order to even "get it" yourself.

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anarchopac-means-and...

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#15

Post by wolfram74 »

outworlder wrote: post #9

> When people ask me about my life’s ambitions, I often joke that my goal is to become independently wealthy so that I can afford to get some work done. Mainly that’s about being able to do things without having to explain them first, so that the finished product can be the explanation. I think this will be a major labor saving improvement. Agreed. The worst part is when they nod and pretend they got it and then that…

When I first started pair programming, I found the most important part was even if I had a solution that would work, if I couldn't explain it to my partner, it was not a very good solution.

Being able to convey an idea often forces it to be closer to the simplest and most comprehensible version of that idea.

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#16

Post by ludston »

wolfram74 wrote: post #15
outworlder wrote: post #9

> When people ask me about my life’s ambitions, I often joke that my goal is to become independently wealthy so that I can afford to get some work done. Mainly that’s about being able to do things without having to explain them first, so that the finished product can be the explanation. I think this will be a major labor saving improvement. Agreed. The worst part is when they nod and pretend they got it and then that…

When I first started pair programming, I found the most important part was even if I had a solution that would work, if I couldn't explain it to my partner, it was not a very good solution. Being able to convey an idea often forces it to be closer to the simplest and most comprehensible version of that idea.

Can you give an example of a solution that you came up with that you decided couldn't be very good based on it being hard to explain?

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#17

Post by MichaelZuo »

outworlder wrote: post #9

> When people ask me about my life’s ambitions, I often joke that my goal is to become independently wealthy so that I can afford to get some work done. Mainly that’s about being able to do things without having to explain them first, so that the finished product can be the explanation. I think this will be a major labor saving improvement. Agreed. The worst part is when they nod and pretend they got it and then that…

I don't get this. Did you not attempt to verify something that important was actually understood?

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#18

Post by dataflow »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #17
outworlder wrote: post #9

> When people ask me about my life’s ambitions, I often joke that my goal is to become independently wealthy so that I can afford to get some work done. Mainly that’s about being able to do things without having to explain them first, so that the finished product can be the explanation. I think this will be a major labor saving improvement. Agreed. The worst part is when they nod and pretend they got it and then that…

I don't get this. Did you not attempt to verify something that important was actually understood?

I don't know what they had in mind, but I'm guessing something like "we need to refactor/restructure our code, it's a mess right now" might fall into that bucket.
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