Twitter bans a popular French activist and the spokeswoman of the Pirate Party • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitter bans a popular French activist and the spokeswoman of the Pirate Party

#11

Post by CrackerNews » Wed, Mar 22, 2023, 3:49 PM UTC

cbeach wrote: post #8

wkat4242 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those people were not killed by Karl Marx' ideology. It was perverted by dictatorships using it as a banner but it didn't inspire their atrocities. Just like the German Democratic Republic wasn't really democratic at all. Karl Marx' ideology never promoted hate unlike Nazi ideology.

Karl Marx’s ideology promoted the violent seizure of assets from the productive class in a revolution to install communism. The ideology absolutely promoted dictatorship and totalitarianism. There’s no alternative system that can sustain communism, given how opposed it is to basic human nature.

That begs the question of what is basic human nature. We lived through much more tyrannical systems that were assumed to be as God intended. This was what led to violence of democrats and republicans against monarchs.

There is a kernel of truth in that communism could not have existed so far, which is why communist states have went for a transitory approach. They could not leap to communism but they tried to work towards it and failed in many places.

Re: Twitter bans a popular French activist and the spokeswoman of the Pirate Party

#12

Post by CrackerNews » Wed, Mar 22, 2023, 3:51 PM UTC

lucozade wrote: post #9

wkat4242 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those people were not killed by Karl Marx' ideology. It was perverted by dictatorships using it as a banner but it didn't inspire their atrocities. Just like the German Democratic Republic wasn't really democratic at all. Karl Marx' ideology never promoted hate unlike Nazi ideology.

Marx explicitly advocated for revolutionary terror with the intent to eradicate whole classes of people. That's quite hate-y. The fact that professed followers of Marx riffed somewhat on his themes doesn't make his ideology any fluffier.

There are those who advocate for revolutionary violence, and there are those who advocate for reformist change.

Re: Twitter bans a popular French activist and the spokeswoman of the Pirate Party

#13

Post by lucozade » Wed, Mar 22, 2023, 6:55 PM UTC

CrackerNews wrote: post #12

lucozade wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marx explicitly advocated for revolutionary terror with the intent to eradicate whole classes of people. That's quite hate-y. The fact that professed followers of Marx riffed somewhat on his themes doesn't make his ideology any fluffier.

There are those who advocate for revolutionary violence, and there are those who advocate for reformist change.

Sure, and Marx advocated for revolutionary violence.

Now, I'm pretty sure he was thinking more Paris Commune than Killing Fields but to argue that Marx was a just reformist is ahistoric.

And sure, there are people who profess to being marxist who don't believe in revolutionary violence as there are those that went well beyond his direct manifesto. But Marx was pretty clear where he stood and was happy to put it in writing.

Re: Twitter bans a popular French activist and the spokeswoman of the Pirate Party

#14

Post by cbeach » Wed, Mar 22, 2023, 8:42 PM UTC

CrackerNews wrote: post #11

cbeach wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Karl Marx’s ideology promoted the violent seizure of assets from the productive class in a revolution to install communism. The ideology absolutely promoted dictatorship and totalitarianism. There’s no alternative system that can sustain communism, given how opposed it is to basic human nature.

That begs the question of what is basic human nature. We lived through much more tyrannical systems that were assumed to be as God intended. This was what led to violence of democrats and republicans against monarchs. There is a kernel of truth in that communism could not have existed so far, which is why communist states have went for a transitory approach. They could not leap to communism but they tried to work tow…

It is basic human nature to want to work for the benefit of your own family, and to expect that if you work harder, you will be rewarded proportionally.

Marxism flies in the face of this premise.