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America and China are preparing for a war over Taiwan

economist.com

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Re: America and China are preparing for a war over Taiwan

#11

Post by avgcorrection »

ilaksh wrote: post #9
avgcorrection wrote: post #2

> Ignore the polite abstractions. The marines are training for a war with China, probably precipitated by an invasion of Taiwan. I guess the consent manufacturing has started. "If shit hits the fan, remember: it was probably China who started it."

This is the biggest threat to security globally is that once it has been decided that the war is strategic, both sides will use propaganda to motivate their population into thinking that the war is a moral mission. There is not going to be anything moral about it. War is caused by a total failure of management over a number of years. A big part of what is increasing tensions are the real world economic problems globa…

Yep. All true.

Re: America and China are preparing for a war over Taiwan

#12

Post by ianburrell »

avgcorrection wrote: post #10
ianburrell wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope China recognizes that challenging the West politically and economically is much better option. I think the best thing China could do would be negotiate with Taiwan for their independence. It is funny that option is never suggested as possibility.

> I hope China recognizes that challenging the West politically and economically is much better option. And that’s what they’re doing? This isn’t a Chinese outlet writing about how the sides are “preparing for war”.

China continually threatens war over Taiwan.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/1/11/china-renews-threat...

Re: America and China are preparing for a war over Taiwan

#14

Post by swamp40 »

It would be a proxy war, not direct US troop involvement. But China says any response from Taiwan will be taken as a direct response from the US. So, that could go south in a hurry.

I think Ukraine showed China exactly what the world response would be to such an invasion - i.e. shunning, so I doubt this would happen except as a way to goad the US into a war. And China certainly isn't ready for that yet.

From the US POV, we are only posturing economically so China can't jump ahead of us technologically. I think we are growing concerned their AI vision systems might soon allow suicide drones that can target US politicians. But that's coming anyway. In general, we have finally decided it doesn't make a lot of sense to hand them technology that they then turn around and put into military hardware that will be used against us.

Re: America and China are preparing for a war over Taiwan

#15

Post by spywaregorilla »

swamp40 wrote: post #14

It would be a proxy war, not direct US troop involvement. But China says any response from Taiwan will be taken as a direct response from the US. So, that could go south in a hurry. I think Ukraine showed China exactly what the world response would be to such an invasion - i.e. shunning, so I doubt this would happen except as a way to goad the US into a war. And China certainly isn't ready for that yet. From the US P…

> I think we are growing concerned their AI vision systems might soon allow suicide drones that can target US politicians.

Utter nonsense. This is hardly a meaningful barrier to attempting assassinations of US polticians.

Re: America and China are preparing for a war over Taiwan

#16

Post by spywaregorilla »

avgcorrection wrote: post #8
ianburrell wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The initiators of violence are the ones blamed for starting it. Like how Russia is blamed for the invasion of Ukraine.

You must be confused. PRC has not invaded anything.

shit hasn't the fan

Re: America and China are preparing for a war over Taiwan

#17

Post by avgcorrection »

ianburrell wrote: post #12
avgcorrection wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hope China recognizes that challenging the West politically and economically is much better option. And that’s what they’re doing? This isn’t a Chinese outlet writing about how the sides are “preparing for war”.

China continually threatens war over Taiwan. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/1/11/china-renews-threat...

The only quote that used directly violent verbs were:

> A spokesperson for China’s Taiwan Affairs Office said on Wednesday that Beijing was recommitted in the new year to “safeguarding sovereignty and territorial integrity” and “smashing plots for Taiwan independence”.

That quote links to another Al J article where the keywords “plot” and “smash” are not present.

These nation states talk all the time about how “X will not go unpunished”. But most times that’s interpreted as things like sanctions or other supposedly non-violent means.

Re: America and China are preparing for a war over Taiwan

#18

Post by avgcorrection »

swamp40 wrote: post #14

It would be a proxy war, not direct US troop involvement. But China says any response from Taiwan will be taken as a direct response from the US. So, that could go south in a hurry. I think Ukraine showed China exactly what the world response would be to such an invasion - i.e. shunning, so I doubt this would happen except as a way to goad the US into a war. And China certainly isn't ready for that yet. From the US P…

The whole world has not shunned Russia over the invasion.

Re: America and China are preparing for a war over Taiwan

#19

Post by ianburrell »

ilaksh wrote: post #9
avgcorrection wrote: post #2

> Ignore the polite abstractions. The marines are training for a war with China, probably precipitated by an invasion of Taiwan. I guess the consent manufacturing has started. "If shit hits the fan, remember: it was probably China who started it."

This is the biggest threat to security globally is that once it has been decided that the war is strategic, both sides will use propaganda to motivate their population into thinking that the war is a moral mission. There is not going to be anything moral about it. War is caused by a total failure of management over a number of years. A big part of what is increasing tensions are the real world economic problems globa…

My worry from debating Chinese nationalists is that they think war is necessary, that it will go their way, and that it will end.

I totally understand China wanting to be superpower. They seem to think that the US is coercing everybody, including allies, by force. They think that if US is defeated and they can replace them or at least coerce the local area. I wish they kept using soft power, that was working well for them.

They talk about Taiwan falling immediately and nobody helping them. China is stronger now but even alone Taiwan could put up a strong fight. Excluding big change in politics, the US will defend Taiwan. China could still win, but it would be uncertain. They also ignore the consequences like cutting off trade with most of the world.

Finally, I'm most worried about how the war ends. If China succeeds in invasion, then war will probably end. But do they realize that trade will never return to normal. Or that South Korea and Japan will build nuclear weapons if US commitment wavers. Also, that there are actions, like attacking US mainland, which will escalate the war and make it hard to end except in nuclear war.

Re: America and China are preparing for a war over Taiwan

#20

Post by singularity2001 »

avgcorrection wrote: post #17
ianburrell wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China continually threatens war over Taiwan. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/1/11/china-renews-threat...

The only quote that used directly violent verbs were: > A spokesperson for China’s Taiwan Affairs Office said on Wednesday that Beijing was recommitted in the new year to “safeguarding sovereignty and territorial integrity” and “smashing plots for Taiwan independence”. That quote links to another Al J article where the keywords “plot” and “smash” are not present. These nation states talk all the time about how “X wil…

Watch Chinese news to see that China has a very militaristic approach
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