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Credit Unions

en.wikipedia.org

11–20 of 64 posts

Re: Credit Unions

#11
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this functionally different? > What Is the NCUA? > The NCUA is an independent agency that oversees the National Credit Union Share Insurance Fund (NCUSIF). This federal insurance fund, backed by the U.S. government, insures member savings in federally insured credit unions. Deposits at federally chartered credit unions are automatically insured by the NCUA, but state-chartered credit unions can opt for NCUA in…

It is a different organization entirely. Functionally it is declared the same in all the googling that I've done, but in practice, are they? I don't know, and personally, I don't really want to find out.

The NCUA is the US Federal Government Agency that oversees Credit Unions.

A Credit Union is not the same as a bank, since a CU is member-owned and member-controlled.

Re: Credit Unions

#12

I exclusively use a credit union, but frankly I could not tell you whether it's more or less vulnerable to market instability or bank runs than a larger bank. It might be more stable for the sheer fact of being very local and nobody around here really cares what's going on in big cities or in silicon valley.

I remember reading credit unions were significantly less likely to go bankrupt than banks during the 2008 meltdown. In fact:

> From 2008 through 2012, 481 FDIC insured banks were either liquidated or merged with healthier institutions. Credit unions, on the other hand, saw 136 involuntary liquidations or assisted mergers at the hands of the National Credit Union Share Insurance Fund (their version of the FDIC), among 6,940 FDIC institutions compared to 6,815 U.S. credit unions.

Re: Credit Unions

#13
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not FDIC insured is a big one.

This is not necessarily true, there are over 7000 federally insured credit unions in the USA. Credit unions are required to maintain coverage for all deposit liabilities. So it can’t be undone by a bank run, but potentially could be undone by theft if uninsured.

"Credit unions are required to maintain coverage for all deposit liabilities."

So are banks.

What fraction of total deposits must be held in cash?

Re: Credit Unions

#14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not necessarily true, there are over 7000 federally insured credit unions in the USA. Credit unions are required to maintain coverage for all deposit liabilities. So it can’t be undone by a bank run, but potentially could be undone by theft if uninsured.

"Credit unions are required to maintain coverage for all deposit liabilities." So are banks. What fraction of total deposits must be held in cash?

Credit unions are subject to essentially the same capitalization requirements as banks---they're regulated by NCUA, but NCUA's capitalization requirements are largely harmonized with those of other bank regulators. It's important to understand that banks themselves are not all regulated by the same agency, with bank regulation split between FDIC, OCC, and the FRS depending on the bank (this is mostly unrelated to FDIC insurance which applies to depository financial institutions regulated by OCC and the FRS as well). These different regulators all apply somewhat different supervision methodologies, with the result that banks do indeed "shop around" for a regulator that they feel will work the best as a long-term relationship. But the overall capitalization ratio requirements are mostly the same at 7-10% being well-capitalized depending on calculation method.

But this discussion is more about insurance, not capital reserves. Credit unions are required to hold insurance (coverage) on their deposits just like banks, with the same cap of $250,000 per account. Most, but not all, credit unions are insured by NCUA, backed by the US government. All federally chartered credit unions are insured by NCUA, but state-chartered credit unions are not necessarily required to be. The majority of state-chartered credit unions are also insured by NCUA, but they have the option of obtaining their insurance by other means, and some choose to use private insurers like American Share Insurance. These private insurers are usually backed by a huge reinsurer and so the risk of them not meeting their obligations is low, but arguably higher than NCUA. On the flipside, private share insurers sometimes offer higher coverage limits than NCUA. It's mostly a minor issue though as credit unions covered by other than NCUA are uncommon, and NCUA-insured credit unions prominently post the NCUA logo. Similarly, non-NCUA credit unions are required to disclose their insurer.

Federally-chartered credit unions usually use "Federal" in their name although some don't use it in their general advertising and logotype any more. State-chartered credit unions only exist in some states, but California charters credit unions and as you'd imagine there are quite a few examples in that state. There are even "dual-chartered" credit unions in some states that hold charters from both state and federal governments. This is the norm in e.g. Washington due to some banking regulation history. Older credit unions are more likely to be state-chartered as the federal system is newer than most state systems, but credit unions didn't really take off until the Federal Credit Union Act so there's still not that many of them.

Re: Credit Unions

#15
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this functionally different? > What Is the NCUA? > The NCUA is an independent agency that oversees the National Credit Union Share Insurance Fund (NCUSIF). This federal insurance fund, backed by the U.S. government, insures member savings in federally insured credit unions. Deposits at federally chartered credit unions are automatically insured by the NCUA, but state-chartered credit unions can opt for NCUA in…

It is a different organization entirely. Functionally it is declared the same in all the googling that I've done, but in practice, are they? I don't know, and personally, I don't really want to find out.

This post made me chuckle. It's basically: I don't know about it, therefore it's scary!

But like, what do you know about the FDIC that you don't know about the NCUA? I suspect to most people they're both just opaque blobs of the US Federal government that insure deposits up to $250,000, and that's the limit of most people's understanding of either organization. If you're not confident in the NCUA, I'm not sure what extra information you could possibly have that would make you suddenly confident in the FDIC.

Re: Credit Unions

#16
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this functionally different? > What Is the NCUA? > The NCUA is an independent agency that oversees the National Credit Union Share Insurance Fund (NCUSIF). This federal insurance fund, backed by the U.S. government, insures member savings in federally insured credit unions. Deposits at federally chartered credit unions are automatically insured by the NCUA, but state-chartered credit unions can opt for NCUA in…

It is a different organization entirely. Functionally it is declared the same in all the googling that I've done, but in practice, are they? I don't know, and personally, I don't really want to find out.

Yes, the NCUA enforces regulatory standards including auditing for credit unions to remain insured.

Actually in many ways the NCUA is a bit more open about their work.

Here's the NCUA informing all credit unions back in 2022 that risk assessments are changing to factor in the sharp rising interest rates affecting asset values.

https://ncua.gov/regulation-supervision/letters-credit-union...

Want to know their enforcement history? Bam https://ncua.gov/news/enforcement-actions/administrative-ord...

Re: Credit Unions

#17

I exclusively use a credit union, but frankly I could not tell you whether it's more or less vulnerable to market instability or bank runs than a larger bank. It might be more stable for the sheer fact of being very local and nobody around here really cares what's going on in big cities or in silicon valley.

It seems possible any deposit-taking financial institution could have made the same mistake as SVB, be they a bank or credit union or anything else. I don't think merely being a credit union will shield them from this. They may have some by-laws though that do protect them, but that's on a case-by-case basis.

You can look up call reports to see how much exposure they have to long-dated treasuries. Most major credit unions have almost nothing, and they also don’t have nearly the amount of depositors above $250k so they’re not really vulnerable to bank runs

Re: Credit Unions

#18

I exclusively use a credit union, but frankly I could not tell you whether it's more or less vulnerable to market instability or bank runs than a larger bank. It might be more stable for the sheer fact of being very local and nobody around here really cares what's going on in big cities or in silicon valley.

[dead]

Re: Credit Unions

#19

I exclusively use a credit union, but frankly I could not tell you whether it's more or less vulnerable to market instability or bank runs than a larger bank. It might be more stable for the sheer fact of being very local and nobody around here really cares what's going on in big cities or in silicon valley.

It seems possible any deposit-taking financial institution could have made the same mistake as SVB, be they a bank or credit union or anything else. I don't think merely being a credit union will shield them from this. They may have some by-laws though that do protect them, but that's on a case-by-case basis.

*by-laws

Re: Credit Unions

#20

I exclusively use a credit union, but frankly I could not tell you whether it's more or less vulnerable to market instability or bank runs than a larger bank. It might be more stable for the sheer fact of being very local and nobody around here really cares what's going on in big cities or in silicon valley.

I would think if a bank if FDIC and you have less than 250k there, you would be fine.
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