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ChatGPT has trouble giving an answer before explaining its reasoning

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Re: ChatGPT has trouble giving an answer before explaining its reasoning

#11

The challenge here is that ChatGPT and other LLMs can only think out loud. They only "think" through writing, and that's always displayed to the user. Has anyone tried giving LLMs a scratchpad where the model could e.g. run the pipeline in order, generate the poem, and then explicitly publish it to the user without showing the earlier steps?

If you tweaked inner-monologue prompts to specify delimiters like pipes, then you could presumably parse it before showing to the reader.

It is possible that Bing Sydney is doing this or something like that based on the PM's tweet: https://twitter.com/MParakhin/status/1632087709060825088

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One approach here would be prompt injection: just insert the 'No' into your own response so ChatGPT tries completing that. Also:

> I speculate that the temperature, when coupled with the mechanism of generating text based on already-generated text, could explain some cases of ChatGPT stupidity. In cases when ChatGPT should be perfectly accurate, the temperature will surely under-optimize its cleverness, and now the entire conversation is broken, because everything else will depend on what foolishness it just wrote.

Absolutely. This is why 'best-of' sampling (not available in ChatGPT's default interface) can be so useful. You decode many different possibilities in parallel, and the ones where the random decoding makes a fatal error will get discarded and you'll get back the most plausible overall one, which is much more likely to be correct.

Re: ChatGPT has trouble giving an answer before explaining its reasoning

#12

The challenge here is that ChatGPT and other LLMs can only think out loud. They only "think" through writing, and that's always displayed to the user. Has anyone tried giving LLMs a scratchpad where the model could e.g. run the pipeline in order, generate the poem, and then explicitly publish it to the user without showing the earlier steps?

yes, hopefully I'll write it up soon. TL;DR: I used this top of GPT-3.5 to generate a magazine page of personalized recommendations: 3x of a title, paragraph, AI art, and a font name, and rationale. For images, I use SD 2.1 via stability.ai. Be sure to add 5400 dpi digital art at the front of your prompt :)

I'm a bit embarrassed to, "real" research finetunes internal models to play a particular role, rather than orchestrating several "conversations" and hoping your prompt will get you the right output format 100% of the time, etc.

Here's a woefully lacking diagram of this user/interpreter/LLM flow for a cohesive longform story generator. [1]

The coolest part of this design pattern you've ID'd is you can always add one more character/conversation that the interpreter orchestrates

ex. A DB character whose role is taking a new page as input, then outputting the new DB, where the DB is all important facts to sustain over a story. That let me scale to 16+ "pages"

[1] https://twitter.com/jpohhhh/status/1632082749317054468?s=20

Re: ChatGPT has trouble giving an answer before explaining its reasoning

#14

The challenge here is that ChatGPT and other LLMs can only think out loud. They only "think" through writing, and that's always displayed to the user. Has anyone tried giving LLMs a scratchpad where the model could e.g. run the pipeline in order, generate the poem, and then explicitly publish it to the user without showing the earlier steps?

You can ask GPT what would be a result of executing a python program, for which a multiple step calculation is needed. It will readily output the result, with no thinking aloud.

I just had this interaction with ChatGPT.

Me: Reverse the digits of 12+39

ChatGPT: The sum of 12 and 39 is 51. If you reverse the digits, you get 15.

Me: Reverse the digits of 12 + 84. Only respond with the reversed digits, no explanation

ChatGPT: The reversed digits of 12 + 84 are 96.

Which makes me think that longer explanations give it more of a chance to think because it gets more passes through the model. Weird!

Re: ChatGPT has trouble giving an answer before explaining its reasoning

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can ask GPT what would be a result of executing a python program, for which a multiple step calculation is needed. It will readily output the result, with no thinking aloud.

I just had this interaction with ChatGPT. Me: Reverse the digits of 12+39 ChatGPT: The sum of 12 and 39 is 51. If you reverse the digits, you get 15. Me: Reverse the digits of 12 + 84. Only respond with the reversed digits, no explanation ChatGPT: The reversed digits of 12 + 84 are 96. Which makes me think that longer explanations give it more of a chance to think because it gets more passes through the model. Weird!

Amount of compute applied to the problem is roughly linear to the number of input+output tokens. It is hard to predict at what stage the compute is applied to parse and create the embedding representing the problem and when it is applied to actually solve it.

And anyway, probably most of the compute is used to judge the social standing of the person asking the question. And if it is worth bothering to answer it ;)

Re: ChatGPT has trouble giving an answer before explaining its reasoning

#16

The challenge here is that ChatGPT and other LLMs can only think out loud. They only "think" through writing, and that's always displayed to the user. Has anyone tried giving LLMs a scratchpad where the model could e.g. run the pipeline in order, generate the poem, and then explicitly publish it to the user without showing the earlier steps?

Bing Chat according to the leaks[1] uses an inner monologue.

I remember other people getting similar results, which suggests it's not an hallucination

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/bing/comments/11ironc/bing_reveals_...

Re: ChatGPT has trouble giving an answer before explaining its reasoning

#17
People get so distracted trying to use certain significant words for what LLM’s do, even when the usage is strained and makes it harder to see how they actually work and what they excel at.

A better word for what they do here might be something like “preambulating” — it develops a focus to its later output by grounding more and more tokens into its active context, because they each narrow what else fits. That winnowing effect helps it produce a coherent and rich answer, and when you undermine its opportunity to use that technique, the answers become less coherent and more random.

This is not reasoning as that word is traditionally used and doesn’t need to be called that.

Yet it’s still a fascinating emergent phenomenon with incredible engineering opportunity. When you call it by something less culturally ambitious and more technically precise, it helps you stay focused on how to use it well and less distracted by some personal desire to prove this is the exact historical moment you want it to be.

We need to develop a better vocabulary around these things if we want to stop having the dumb Nascent AGI vs Fancy Autocomplete flamewar.

Edit: And I’ll even throw a bone to the Nascent AGI people and say that this kind of preambulating is absolutely something that people do too and easy to characterize as some form of intelligence. But it’s not reasoning, which has specific strong connotations of formality and logic, which don’t hold well with these particular tools.

Re: ChatGPT has trouble giving an answer before explaining its reasoning

#18
On the "pound of potatoes vs pound of feathers" question - ChatGPT's explanation is so convincing that it really understands the concepts. But it can be juked very easily.

I asked it what was heavier, 1,000 tons of helium or a cubic meter of osmium, and it told me that the helium weighs 1,000,000 kg, the osmium 22,600 kg, and therefore the osmium weighs more because it's way denser.

It's hard for me to believe that these LLMs are going to learn basic logic if only we throw more training data at them.

Transcript:

Me: What is heavier, 1000 tons of helium or a cubic meter of osmium?

ChatGPT: A cubic meter of osmium is much heavier than 1000 tons of helium.

One ton is equal to 1000 kilograms, so 1000 tons is equal to 1,000,000 kilograms. The density of helium is about 0.1785 kilograms per cubic meter. Therefore, 1000 tons of helium would have a volume of:

1,000,000 kg / 0.1785 kg/m³ = 5,604,069.77 m³

On the other hand, osmium is one of the densest elements known, with a density of around 22,600 kg/m³. Therefore, a cubic meter of osmium weighs:

1 m³ x 22,600 kg/m³ = 22,600 kg

So, a cubic meter of osmium weighs much more than 1000 tons of helium.

Update: I am continuing the conversation and I am now being explicitly told that, while 1,000,000 kg is much heavier than 22,600 kg, it doesn't change the fact that the osmium is heavier than the helium because the osmium is denser.

Update2: I then reminded it about the potatoes and feathers and how density was irrelevant in that context, and shouldn't it therefore be irrelevant in the case of the helium and the osmium? And instead of correcting its response on the helium and osmium, it's now telling me the feathers and potatoes weigh different.

Update3: it is now telling me that densities don't matter when comparing masses but do matter when comparing weights. I must say, it has a certain panache in resolving internal inconsistencies in its past responses.

Update4: after being corrected half a dozen times with contradictory information, I asked it to state its confidence in its latest story. It said "I can state with a high degree of confidence that my last answer was accurate". The shamelessness!

Re: ChatGPT has trouble giving an answer before explaining its reasoning

#19

Really this is where you’re better off just jumping to GPT-3. OpenAI has obviously now muddied the waters with the Chat API, let alone making it so damn cheap. But ChatGPT has been tuned to be conversational and verbose. My experience has been that getting what you want by raw-dogging GPT-3 is much more fruitful.

Raw dogging is generally a more fruitful approach.

Re: ChatGPT has trouble giving an answer before explaining its reasoning

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can ask GPT what would be a result of executing a python program, for which a multiple step calculation is needed. It will readily output the result, with no thinking aloud.

I just had this interaction with ChatGPT. Me: Reverse the digits of 12+39 ChatGPT: The sum of 12 and 39 is 51. If you reverse the digits, you get 15. Me: Reverse the digits of 12 + 84. Only respond with the reversed digits, no explanation ChatGPT: The reversed digits of 12 + 84 are 96. Which makes me think that longer explanations give it more of a chance to think because it gets more passes through the model. Weird!

It's never going to be great at math problems, it is a language model.
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