When universities drop standardized testing but keep legacy admissions it tells you all you need to know.
Dropping the SAT requirement is a luxury belief
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Re: Dropping the SAT requirement is a luxury belief
#12Standardized tests remain the only criteria totally in the control of the student. You can study for them and objectively do better, become a better applicant. Everthing else is either circumstantial or based in the opinion of others, mostly highschool teachers. If i had to rely on my highschool teachers' opinion of me i would not have ever gone to university let alone have won scholarships. Standardized testing allo…
Make it 100% achievement. Any differences in background must be supplemented with aggressive college prep programs so the bar isn't weakened for some. It's the only way to remain globally competitive. And abolish legacy.
(Don't get a JD unless set on a particular practice because the field is overflowing. Consider MD or DDS first.)
Re: Dropping the SAT requirement is a luxury belief
#13The key part that is glossed over is that Columbia is making SATs optional, so if a candidate is amazing in all ways except they are a poor test taker, they do not have to submit a test score.
And the author also tries to correlate SATs with the Armed Forces aptitude tests, the latter which weeds out those at the far bottom end of aptitude versus making hitting a high bar a requirement for entry. Once in, recruits are judged by other means. And while what he says is true about how poorly those low scoring recruits faired, a big reason they died at a higher rate was that they were assigned to infantry at a higher rate, so were more often put in harms way.
Finally, why do we assume the SATs are fair? I was fairly good at the SATs, but would have been awful if they had required spelling, grammar or were fill in the blank versus multiple choice. Should I have a leg up over everyone because I am good at what it tested? I chose not to submit SAT 2’s for writing for that reason (timed essay writing for an hour in pen was a truly awful experience).
Re: Dropping the SAT requirement is a luxury belief
#14Standardized tests remain the only criteria totally in the control of the student. You can study for them and objectively do better, become a better applicant. Everthing else is either circumstantial or based in the opinion of others, mostly highschool teachers. If i had to rely on my highschool teachers' opinion of me i would not have ever gone to university let alone have won scholarships. Standardized testing allo…
Who grades the standardized tests? Besides multiple choice there's subjectivity in grading. Even with multiple choice there's some subjectivity for questions like "What's the best word choice".
Why were teachers biased against you?
Re: Dropping the SAT requirement is a luxury belief
#15The key part that is glossed over is that Columbia is making SATs optional, so if a candidate is amazing in all ways except they are a poor test taker, they do not have to submit a test score. And the author also tries to correlate SATs with the Armed Forces aptitude tests, the latter which weeds out those at the far bottom end of aptitude versus making hitting a high bar a requirement for entry. Once in, recruits ar…
> Should I have a leg up over everyone because I am good at what it tested?
Yes, that’s a feature not a bug. The SAT doesn’t test randomly. It is designed to test for specific subjects and knowledge in those subjects.
I’ve SAT is not fun but I think it’s purpose is to fairly test all takers and rank them to assist with allocating educational resources.
It’s such an odd question to ask “should I get a leg up because I got an A in chemistry and someone else got a C?” There are many reasons that make trades hard to get. But the idea is to compensate for them as best as possible and not dwell on the fact that any merit system will not be completely fair.
Re: Dropping the SAT requirement is a luxury belief
#16Employers should embrace standardize testing: we're on the cusp of a revolution in education driven by the tireless personalized tutoring and feedback of LLMs Of course not all schools are ending testing, MIT for example: "We are reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles" https://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/we-are-reinstating-our...
As an aside, that is so well written, and I love the use of inline citations that expand right where the reader is versus jumping to the bottom. It feels so natural that I wish all publications did that.
Re: Dropping the SAT requirement is a luxury belief
#17The only reason I was able to break into programming was because of high standardized test scores. The SAT and others like it really are a great equalizer. Dropping the requirement is a shame.
Sorry, but what do you mean? If you said any other career except programming I'd agree with this, but programming is literally the least gate-kept of the high-paying careers. Anyone can break into programming, all you need is the internet, interest and aptitude to understand code.
And time. Don’t forget about time. Not everyone has the luxury of 24h/day.
Re: Dropping the SAT requirement is a luxury belief
#18Standardized tests remain the only criteria totally in the control of the student. You can study for them and objectively do better, become a better applicant. Everthing else is either circumstantial or based in the opinion of others, mostly highschool teachers. If i had to rely on my highschool teachers' opinion of me i would not have ever gone to university let alone have won scholarships. Standardized testing allo…
Where you go to school still greatly affects how well you are likely to do on standardised tests. Better schools can easily bump students up 2 or 3 grades compared to poorer schools. To some extent this will also improve students’ ability to complete degree courses, but there’s also a great extent to which this is just teaching students how to pass standardised tests well. It’s true that truly excellent students will do well regardless of school, but you’ll end up with mostly average students from good schools.
Universities in the UK use A-level results (which are mostly based on standardised tests), but will sometimes compensate (lower) the required grade based on a students school and background. Which IMO works out fairer in practice.
Re: Dropping the SAT requirement is a luxury belief
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry, but what do you mean? If you said any other career except programming I'd agree with this, but programming is literally the least gate-kept of the high-paying careers. Anyone can break into programming, all you need is the internet, interest and aptitude to understand code.
And time. Don’t forget about time. Not everyone has the luxury of 24h/day.
that goes for any career. I'm talking about young people who have plenty of time to invest into their future.
Doctor? Gatekeepers. Actor? Gatekeepers. Lawyer? Gatekeepers. Programmer? Just show up and be good! (The closest thing to a meritocracy there is.)
Re: Dropping the SAT requirement is a luxury belief
#20Standardized tests remain the only criteria totally in the control of the student. You can study for them and objectively do better, become a better applicant. Everthing else is either circumstantial or based in the opinion of others, mostly highschool teachers. If i had to rely on my highschool teachers' opinion of me i would not have ever gone to university let alone have won scholarships. Standardized testing allo…
It’s the other way around.
It helps to have some familiarity with the test, so test prep has some value, but some rich kids can’t test their way out of a paper bag. The one thing they could do is hire a ringer to take the test for them, otherwise it is a valuable form of downward mobility which presents a “barrier” to them hoarding opportunity from someone more able.