Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

businessinsider.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 60 posts

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#11

Post by bsaul »

hairofadog wrote: post #8
bsaul wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does sound like common sense to me though... I'm still completely astonished that doctors allow teenagers to undergo sex change surgery or chemical procedures before the age of sexual consent, or the right to vote. Either we consider kids to be kids, and thus not totally "settled" psychologically (for the lack of a better word), or we don't. PS: the issue of taking kids custody out of trans parents is an entirely…

Out of curiosity, how many minors do you believe undergo sex-reassignment surgery?

i do hope this isn't more than a couple per year, worldwide. I don't have the numbers, but my fear is the "trend" effect. The fact that this issue is becoming widely discussed can easily influence teenagers into believing this is the solution to their problem (that's what teenagers do : they get easily influenced).

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#12

Post by [deleted] »

PartiallyTyped wrote: post #2

While this is quite different to the usual content, I believe that sharing this information is important for members of our community and their families in order to prepare for the possible outcomes. The title has been edited to fit. The complete title is: “Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans parents or siblings — even if they live in another state”

[deleted]

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#13

Post by shrimp_emoji »

rbanffy wrote: post #3
PartiallyTyped wrote: post #2

While this is quite different to the usual content, I believe that sharing this information is important for members of our community and their families in order to prepare for the possible outcomes. The title has been edited to fit. The complete title is: “Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans parents or siblings — even if they live in another state”

This sounds absolutely terrible. There's a lot that needs fixing in the US right now.

These are growing pains caused by the U.S. being ahead of the curve in dealing with trans issues. So (if you think trans issues are legitimate), relative to the rest of the world, maybe the U.S. needs the least fixing. :p

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#14

Post by bsaul »

shrimp_emoji wrote: post #9
bsaul wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does sound like common sense to me though... I'm still completely astonished that doctors allow teenagers to undergo sex change surgery or chemical procedures before the age of sexual consent, or the right to vote. Either we consider kids to be kids, and thus not totally "settled" psychologically (for the lack of a better word), or we don't. PS: the issue of taking kids custody out of trans parents is an entirely…

If doctors and psychologists do this, why do you assume they haven't determined that it's a net positive given the evidence and thus a rational thing to do?

If the US were a sane democracy with a proven ability to have pragmatic and purely scientific debate on hot topic, i'd be following you. However, the topic is being highly politicized, and so i'm very sure the doctor and psychologists opinions aren't purely medical on this topic anymore.

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#15

Post by Chronoyes »

HeresTheT wrote: post #10
Chronoyes wrote: post #4

[flagged]

Florida Senate Bill 254 is the bill. The text of the bill: https://legiscan.com/FL/text/S0254/2023 The fact that this made it to the senate and house in Florida is a story worth discussing.

[flagged]

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#16

Post by HeresTheT »

bsaul wrote: post #7
rbanffy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds absolutely terrible. There's a lot that needs fixing in the US right now.

It does sound like common sense to me though... I'm still completely astonished that doctors allow teenagers to undergo sex change surgery or chemical procedures before the age of sexual consent, or the right to vote. Either we consider kids to be kids, and thus not totally "settled" psychologically (for the lack of a better word), or we don't. PS: the issue of taking kids custody out of trans parents is an entirely…

> I'm still completely astonished that doctors allow teenagers to undergo sex change surgery or chemical procedures before the age of sexual consent, or the right to vote.

Thankfully, there is data here.

First, sex change surgery and chemical procedures are not what you think they are. The care given to teenagers is typically "puberty blockers", which are temporary and reversible drugs that delay the onset of puberty.

These are typically given explicitly so kids can age a bit and ensure they are aren't making difficult to reverse decisions either way.

Puberty is irreversible, so temporarily delaying it gives people time to make evaluations without time pressure. You really don't want people making decisions about whether they are trans or not under the gun -- "Oh shit, if I don't make a decision now, I'm going to have puberty, so I better go go go!".

After that, kids enter the care of mental health professionals and doctors, who observe and work with that kid's community and the kid themselves for years before undergoing any semi-permanent change like hormone therapy or surgery.

These decisions are not taken lightly, and the regret rate for gender affirming care is about 1%. That regret rate is considerably smaller than regret rates for knee/hip replacements, marriage, having children, and many, many other things we widely consider to be normal healthy things to do.

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#17

Post by NikolaNovak »

Chronoyes wrote: post #15
HeresTheT wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Florida Senate Bill 254 is the bill. The text of the bill: https://legiscan.com/FL/text/S0254/2023 The fact that this made it to the senate and house in Florida is a story worth discussing.

[flagged]

I'm confused ; I could buy the first request, but now the cheese has inexplicably moved? Request was for credible source. Somebody provided text to actual bill. That is the canonical credible source - no interpretation, bait, translation, summary or slant. What is your expectation in terms of "credible source" then - keep trying until they guess your preferred news source?

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#18

Post by HeresTheT »

Chronoyes wrote: post #15
HeresTheT wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Florida Senate Bill 254 is the bill. The text of the bill: https://legiscan.com/FL/text/S0254/2023 The fact that this made it to the senate and house in Florida is a story worth discussing.

[flagged]

A senator and two members of the house felt that a minority class of people should have their children removed from them, and invested the time to draft legislation and introduce it to both the house and senate simultaneously.

That, all by itself, is notable. We don't want to wait until this passes to start discussing it. The fact that it came up at all is the well past the point where we should be talking about it.

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#19

Post by plorkyeran »

bsaul wrote: post #11
hairofadog wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, how many minors do you believe undergo sex-reassignment surgery?

i do hope this isn't more than a couple per year, worldwide. I don't have the numbers, but my fear is the "trend" effect. The fact that this issue is becoming widely discussed can easily influence teenagers into believing this is the solution to their problem (that's what teenagers do : they get easily influenced).

Worldwide numbers are obviously complicated, but in the united states the median number per year is zero if you exclude intersex babies. Sexual reassignment surgery on minors is an entirely made up concern. Even HRT is unusual, and typically teens only receive puberty blockers specifically to let them defer the decision until adulthood.

Re: Florida courts could take 'emergency' custody of kids with trans relatives

#20

Post by PartiallyTyped »

bsaul wrote: post #11
hairofadog wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, how many minors do you believe undergo sex-reassignment surgery?

i do hope this isn't more than a couple per year, worldwide. I don't have the numbers, but my fear is the "trend" effect. The fact that this issue is becoming widely discussed can easily influence teenagers into believing this is the solution to their problem (that's what teenagers do : they get easily influenced).

Part of gender affirming healthcare - which also includes possibly affirming a gender congruent to their sex - is extensive therapy and investigations by psychiatrists.

People are not handed HRT like candies, nor do they undergo such surgeries on a whim.

By banning gender affirming healthcare you force kids and adults to seek HRT off the market, from possibly malicious and opportunistic actors.

It’s no different to drug policies really. The war on drugs has failed in every state and country that has attempted it, whereas the humanitarian approach taken by Portugal has shown to actually solve the issue.

If indeed there is a trend, doesn’t it make more sense to have the kids reviewed by certified and approved medical professionals and give them therapy and evaluation instead of making it harder and hoping that they don’t go to gray market?

There is an enormous amount of research done on the topic, and is definitely not new either.

Post reply on HN