I don't owe you scala-tools.org • Hacker News Board

Re: I don't owe you scala-tools.org

#11

Post by rue » Sat, Jan 21, 2012, 8:51 PM UTC

shinratdr wrote: post #8

This is a great example of why large parts of the open source community are complete clusterfucks. There have been some amazing programs and services that emerge from this model, but by and large all projects have the same caveats: Nobody takes overall responsibility, everybody contributor is an unquestionable Jesus character, every contribution is a donation with strings attached, expecting the status quo to be main…

Paid-for projects go under all the time. This is nothing particularly unique to open source except that with OSS, someone can actually take over.

People just couldn't be bothered to, and are now paying the price.

Re: I don't owe you scala-tools.org

#12

Post by raganwald » Sat, Jan 21, 2012, 8:54 PM UTC

The form letter template for open source abandonware:

http://raganwald.posterous.com/form-letter-template-for-open...

Re: I don't owe you scala-tools.org

#13

Post by earl » Sat, Jan 21, 2012, 8:56 PM UTC

shinratdr wrote: post #8

This is a great example of why large parts of the open source community are complete clusterfucks. There have been some amazing programs and services that emerge from this model, but by and large all projects have the same caveats: Nobody takes overall responsibility, everybody contributor is an unquestionable Jesus character, every contribution is a donation with strings attached, expecting the status quo to be main…

So what you're saying is most open source communities are like the onion article: "Report: 98 Percent Of U.S. Commuters Favor Public Transportation For Others" [1]. Someone should step up and provide hosting and maven repos and blah blah blah... but not me. Which makes you wonder if there's really a community or it's just a handful of people donating to charity and a thousand people taking.

[1] http://www.theonion.com/articles/report-98-percent-of-us-com...

Re: I don't owe you scala-tools.org

#14

Post by tedunangst » Sat, Jan 21, 2012, 8:56 PM UTC

teaspoon wrote: post #6

This reminds me of Neil Gaiman's "George R.R. Martin is not your bitch" essay, about reader entitlement: http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.htm...

I agree, but only up to a point. When a book is advertised as part of a series, that is in effect a promise that there will be a series. Otherwise it's false advertising.

Re: I don't owe you scala-tools.org

#15

Post by shinratdr » Sat, Jan 21, 2012, 9:25 PM UTC

rue wrote: post #11

shinratdr wrote: post #8

This is a great example of why large parts of the open source community are complete clusterfucks. There have been some amazing programs and services that emerge from this model, but by and large all projects have the same caveats: Nobody takes overall responsibility, everybody contributor is an unquestionable Jesus character, every contribution is a donation with strings attached, expecting the status quo to be main…

Paid-for projects go under all the time. This is nothing particularly unique to open source except that with OSS, someone can actually take over . People just couldn't be bothered to, and are now paying the price.

Actually no, people don't just take their ball and go home like this in funded proprietary projects that aren't maintained by very small teams. If he was a paid for contributor, he would have handed off the domain no question. Because it wouldn't have been his to keep in the first place, it would have belonged to the project collective.

Smaller proprietary get shut down and money dries up, but nobody simply throws a wrench into the machine quite like up and leaving a project but taking project resources with you like that. It simply doesn't happen outside of the open source community, and it is a unique problem. Branding it as a simple shutdown is also glossing over the problem.

Re: I don't owe you scala-tools.org

#16

Post by bad_user » Sat, Jan 21, 2012, 9:25 PM UTC

shinratdr wrote: post #8

This is a great example of why large parts of the open source community are complete clusterfucks. There have been some amazing programs and services that emerge from this model, but by and large all projects have the same caveats: Nobody takes overall responsibility, everybody contributor is an unquestionable Jesus character, every contribution is a donation with strings attached, expecting the status quo to be main…

Personally I would rather have people contribute to open-source and quit when they want. I rather prefer the "clusterfucks" you mention, versus the alternative.

That's the nature of open-source that people don't understand: it's not about getting stuff for free, although that's a nice side-effect. Instead it's about having the freedom to fork it.

So if you find yourself in such a situation, either donate enough money to keep the maintainer happy or step up and contribute.

Re: I don't owe you scala-tools.org

#17

Post by tikhonj » Sat, Jan 21, 2012, 9:26 PM UTC

raganwald wrote: post #12

The form letter template for open source abandonware: http://raganwald.posterous.com/form-letter-template-for-open...

There's nothing wrong with dropping support, but trying to delete the source on the internet seems petty and completely unnecessary. Some of the projects I use a lot were basically abandoned but left open (hey, Google Code and Github are free); they were later picked up, improved and supported by others. (JS2 mode is the best example of this.)

Also, I really think you should be polite even if rudeness is justified. Of course, being polite does not mean yielding to requests. But that's a different matter entirely.

Re: I don't owe you scala-tools.org

#18

Post by shinratdr » Sat, Jan 21, 2012, 9:28 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #16

shinratdr wrote: post #8

This is a great example of why large parts of the open source community are complete clusterfucks. There have been some amazing programs and services that emerge from this model, but by and large all projects have the same caveats: Nobody takes overall responsibility, everybody contributor is an unquestionable Jesus character, every contribution is a donation with strings attached, expecting the status quo to be main…

Personally I would rather have people contribute to open-source and quit when they want. I rather prefer the "clusterfucks" you mention, versus the alternative. That's the nature of open-source that people don't understand: it's not about getting stuff for free, although that's a nice side-effect. Instead it's about having the freedom to fork it. So if you find yourself in such a situation, either donate enough money…

> So if you find yourself in such a situation, either donate enough money to keep the maintainer happy or step up and contribute.

I think saying essentially "throw unlimited funds at it with no promise of a solution or 'patch it yourself'" is also simply glossing over the problem. "I prefer it" is a great justification for you, it doesn't solve the issue for anyone else though and it's not a productive line of thinking.

Re: I don't owe you scala-tools.org

#19

Post by shinratdr » Sat, Jan 21, 2012, 9:31 PM UTC

earl wrote: post #13

shinratdr wrote: post #8

This is a great example of why large parts of the open source community are complete clusterfucks. There have been some amazing programs and services that emerge from this model, but by and large all projects have the same caveats: Nobody takes overall responsibility, everybody contributor is an unquestionable Jesus character, every contribution is a donation with strings attached, expecting the status quo to be main…

So what you're saying is most open source communities are like the onion article: "Report: 98 Percent Of U.S. Commuters Favor Public Transportation For Others" [1]. Someone should step up and provide hosting and maven repos and blah blah blah... but not me. Which makes you wonder if there's really a community or it's just a handful of people donating to charity and a thousand people taking. [1] http://www.theonion.co…

Or alternatively, that there is a very good reason most transactions in life are simple exchanges of funds for goods or services.

Re: I don't owe you scala-tools.org

#20

Post by tikhonj » Sat, Jan 21, 2012, 9:32 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #4

TL;DR - The internet is full of ungrateful dicks. It often bothers me the vitriol that open source projects get for not fixing some bug or even add some feature that certain user considers important. But I don't see a best course of action than simply ignoring them. There's no upside to wasting your time and mental energy replying. (By the way, I agree with the author. I just think this post is preaching to the choir…

Any large community is going to accumulate some unfortunate people. These people then stand out because they tend to be loud and annoying. Additionally, people are apparently more likely to criticize something free!

So I agree entirely that the best option is ignoring them. If you're a really nice person--and some are--then you would ignore the tone of a reasonable request and do it anyhow. Now, you don't have to, but that's the beauty of open source: freedom. You never have to do anything.

I suspect that this post is the result of a little bit of undeserved, subconscious guilt. I know that when I feel guilty despite clearly being right, I become defensive; I could certainly imagine a similar reaction here. Or it could be something else entirely.