Stoicism is very different to what became Christian machoism in the Euro Atlantic
Rodriguez, famous for his one and only published work, has been called a Christian Seneca:
The Varieties of Bad Stoicism
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Re: The Varieties of Bad Stoicism
#12OK, but somebody kindly help me with some resources that teach me 'Good Stoicism'?
Re: The Varieties of Bad Stoicism
#13“Freedom is the only worthy goal in life. It is won by disregarding things that lie beyond our control." -- Epictetus
In 2023, I think we can achieve a level of control that's incomprehensible to Epictetus. The goal is to maximize equanimity, freedom, and control over one's time/destiny. Money can get you quite far on that path. I sometimes feel that Massimo's just bitter at the success of people like Ryan Holiday (who just took Massimo's work and "packaged" it).
P.S. Warmly recommend this lecture about Marcus Aurelius (a classic): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Auuk1y4DRgk
Re: The Varieties of Bad Stoicism
#14“Freedom is the only worthy goal in life. It is won by disregarding things that lie beyond our control." -- Epictetus In 2023, I think we can achieve a level of control that's incomprehensible to Epictetus. The goal is to maximize equanimity, freedom, and control over one's time/destiny. Money can get you quite far on that path. I sometimes feel that Massimo's just bitter at the success of people like Ryan Holiday (w…
Everything that matters, including how much money you have, but more importantly when you and the people you love become sick or die accidentally is governed by chance.
If you think money gets you a pass, maybe recheck your understanding of the issues and the stoic solution. The shallow packaged version produced by Ryan Holiday isn’t a good source
Re: The Varieties of Bad Stoicism
#15OK, but somebody kindly help me with some resources that teach me 'Good Stoicism'?
Something like: “don’t worry about stuff you don’t have full control over and don’t be a dick”
Re: The Varieties of Bad Stoicism
#16The “bad stoicism “ examples are indeed “bad”. They are in fact completely antithetical to the stoic ethos.
The “bad” in actual stoicism lies in a common misinterpretation of classical stoic works as a result of missing context.
The context is that Epictetus et al wrote those works in a time when people were normally ruled by “passions” and did not live under the same expectation of self control and rational action that is expected (rightly or not) of the average person in the modern day.
This contextual disparity leads some people to think that stoicism means to completely abandon emotion and emotional self care. This is not only untrue, it can be deeply harmful.
Classical stoic works need to be read within the passionate context within which they were written to be properly understood.
Re: The Varieties of Bad Stoicism
#17OK, but somebody kindly help me with some resources that teach me 'Good Stoicism'?
Well the author of TFA has written some good ones, including his book "Think Like a Stoic: Ancient Wisdom for Today's World". You can also find some stuff on his website[1]
Re: The Varieties of Bad Stoicism
#18OK, but somebody kindly help me with some resources that teach me 'Good Stoicism'?
Well the author of TFA has written some good ones, including his book "Think Like a Stoic: Ancient Wisdom for Today's World". You can also find some stuff on his website[1] [1] https://massimopigliucci.org/
Thank You, I wish I had read his works sooner.
Re: The Varieties of Bad Stoicism
#19“Freedom is the only worthy goal in life. It is won by disregarding things that lie beyond our control." -- Epictetus In 2023, I think we can achieve a level of control that's incomprehensible to Epictetus. The goal is to maximize equanimity, freedom, and control over one's time/destiny. Money can get you quite far on that path. I sometimes feel that Massimo's just bitter at the success of people like Ryan Holiday (w…
Everything that matters, including how much money you have, but more importantly when you and the people you love become sick or die accidentally is governed by chance. If you think money gets you a pass, maybe recheck your understanding of the issues and the stoic solution. The shallow packaged version produced by Ryan Holiday isn’t a good source
Ryan Holiday is one of the best examples of the type that seeks to turn these ideas into a kind of prosperity gospel for grindset bros.
He has a history of being a BS merchant [1]: he's just found a new angle as a self-help guru.
[1] https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2012/telling-the-t...
Re: The Varieties of Bad Stoicism
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everything that matters, including how much money you have, but more importantly when you and the people you love become sick or die accidentally is governed by chance. If you think money gets you a pass, maybe recheck your understanding of the issues and the stoic solution. The shallow packaged version produced by Ryan Holiday isn’t a good source
Ryan Holiday is one of the best examples of the type that seeks to turn these ideas into a kind of prosperity gospel for grindset bros. He has a history of being a BS merchant [1]: he's just found a new angle as a self-help guru. [1] https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2012/telling-the-t...
I expected to read that and find Holiday to be some kind of terrible human but I came out of it with an appreciation of what he was doing, despite the author’s clear intent to paint him in a bad light.