Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#11

Post by cactusplant7374 » Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 1:29 PM UTC

elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

Wouldn’t Tesla build quality go up with a union that can make demands? If so, how can we say Tesla’s system is working and management isn’t unproductive and unreliable?

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#12

Post by sidibe » Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 1:29 PM UTC

elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

If there's lots of competition over labor in the area, unions aren't necessary but if there isn't much the workers need some kind of leverage that they can't achieve individually. That's when unions are useful IMO, don't know if that's the case here

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#13

Post by vidarh » Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 1:30 PM UTC

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #8

maxehmookau wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that "invidivual performance and personal relationships" provides job security is a laughable idea in almost any industry. The wave of tech layoffs should've made that clear. The USA's primal hatred of unions will always blow my mind. There's power in a union my friend.

You're talking about specific job security. He's talking about general job security (or at least seems to be based on wording). A union protects your specific job for a specific employer (or set of employers or subset of industry). Networks and reputation protect your ability to get paid for the thing you do in general. The degree to which either approach is successful is going to depend on one's industry and positio…

The latter is mostly relevant for specialist, high paid labour.

I'm not in a union, but I'm also roughly in the 1%. If I was anywhere below the top 5% or so, I'd have joined a union in a heartbeat, and like commenters above I find the US resistance to unions utterly bizarre, not least because US unions were instrumental in laying the groundwork for a lot of modern labour protections, to the point of losing lives as part of those battles.

Even May 1st as an international day for labour demonstrations came after a request from the AFL in part as commemoration of the Chicago Haymarket Massacre, and as a renewal of the multi-decades fight for the 8 hour working day.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#14

Post by jimnotgym » Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 1:31 PM UTC

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #8

maxehmookau wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that "invidivual performance and personal relationships" provides job security is a laughable idea in almost any industry. The wave of tech layoffs should've made that clear. The USA's primal hatred of unions will always blow my mind. There's power in a union my friend.

You're talking about specific job security. He's talking about general job security (or at least seems to be based on wording). A union protects your specific job for a specific employer (or set of employers or subset of industry). Networks and reputation protect your ability to get paid for the thing you do in general. The degree to which either approach is successful is going to depend on one's industry and positio…

If ones job at Tesla is to screw on wing mirrors, how should one go about building a network and developing their reputation? A github page? Speak at conferences maybe?

I wish unions were not needed too, then I hear about shitty employers exploiting poor people and I accept that unions are needed.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#15

Post by iso1631 » Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 1:31 PM UTC

elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

Your individual performance may be fine when your company is small enough that your boss works for the CTO directly. When you are in a company with thousands of employees it makes no difference.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#16

Post by vidarh » Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 1:31 PM UTC

elif wrote: post #10

maxehmookau wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that "invidivual performance and personal relationships" provides job security is a laughable idea in almost any industry. The wave of tech layoffs should've made that clear. The USA's primal hatred of unions will always blow my mind. There's power in a union my friend.

I'm not trying to say everyone that got let go is a low performer or has poor personal skills. I've seen plenty of good employees fired for bad or no reason. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that even working with a guillotine above my head feels preferable to having to pick up the slack of people coasting and not meeting their commitments.

If a union protects people who are not doing their job from being made to do it, that is an argument for chosing a different union not against unions in general.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#17

Post by maxehmookau » Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 1:31 PM UTC

elif wrote: post #10

maxehmookau wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that "invidivual performance and personal relationships" provides job security is a laughable idea in almost any industry. The wave of tech layoffs should've made that clear. The USA's primal hatred of unions will always blow my mind. There's power in a union my friend.

I'm not trying to say everyone that got let go is a low performer or has poor personal skills. I've seen plenty of good employees fired for bad or no reason. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that even working with a guillotine above my head feels preferable to having to pick up the slack of people coasting and not meeting their commitments.

> I guess what I'm trying to say, is that even working with a guillotine above my head feels preferable to having to pick up the slack of people coasting and not meeting their commitments.

Really? I'd far rather not have a guillotine above my head if the trade-off is a few lazy colleagues. Why should that be my problem?

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#18

Post by christophilus » Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 1:32 PM UTC

elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

Plenty of us feel the same way. Also, I hate bureaucracy. When you have a union, you have another bureaucracy to deal with. Granted, a good union is probably worth the added effort-- especially when you're in a field where the lack of a union leads to egregious abuses. I've never worked a job where a union felt like it would be a value add to me.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#19

Post by elif » Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 1:32 PM UTC

iso1631 wrote: post #15

elif wrote: post #2

As someone who has only worked in "right to work" states, it always strikes me as absurd that people seek "job security" through a 3rd party agency rather than by individual performance and developing personal relationships. Honestly a big part of why I quit my last job was too many unproductive/unreliable coworkers. Am I just Stockholm Syndromed?

Your individual performance may be fine when your company is small enough that your boss works for the CTO directly. When you are in a company with thousands of employees it makes no difference.

Job performance making no difference is my chief complaint. It leads to poor average performance which is a toxic work environment imo.

Re: Tesla Workers Launch Union Campaign in New York

#20

Post by fzeroracer » Tue, Feb 14, 2023, 1:33 PM UTC

elif wrote: post #10

maxehmookau wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that "invidivual performance and personal relationships" provides job security is a laughable idea in almost any industry. The wave of tech layoffs should've made that clear. The USA's primal hatred of unions will always blow my mind. There's power in a union my friend.

I'm not trying to say everyone that got let go is a low performer or has poor personal skills. I've seen plenty of good employees fired for bad or no reason. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that even working with a guillotine above my head feels preferable to having to pick up the slack of people coasting and not meeting their commitments.

I mean, the current situation is that you get to work with a guillotine above your head and pick up the slack of people coasting because they can suck up to upper management and puff up their work better than you. Or worse, they lay off the people that did the work, promote the slackers and then you're doing 3x the work for 1x the pay.