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Das Keyboard now pre-ordering Mac version of their mechanical keyboard

daskeyboard.com

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Re: Das Keyboard now pre-ordering Mac version of their mechanical keyboard

#11

I use an Apple Extended Keyboard: http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/m_kbdm3501.jpg It requires a rather hefty ADB to USB adapter, which ran me about fifty bucks ( http://www.amazon.com/Griffin-2001-ADB-iMate-Universal-adapt... ) but to me, it was worth it. Modern Apple keyboards look beautiful sitting in a pristine environment, but the lack of key travel, too-flat form factor, and decent spacing makes typing…

If I may, I suggest you try the USB version - Apple USB keyboard - http://www.amazon.com/Apple-109-Key-Version-Keyboard-1003199...

Very similar layout, with a smaller form factor, non mechanical but to me it feels just as good, and it features an USB hub. My preferred keyboard at home and at work, along with some ControllerMate magic to turn the Help key into something more useful.

PS: it also has a delete (Ctrl-D) key to the right of backspace (Ctrl-H), in the usual PC position.

Re: Das Keyboard now pre-ordering Mac version of their mechanical keyboard

#14
post #10

damn, I just switched to a microsoft 4000 ergo keyboard. I'm tempted to order one of these now because I don't think I'm sold on the ergo arrangement yet (I've only had it about a week though). Wish I saved the box for that keyboard :/ Anyone used both and can convince me not to order one of the Das'?

I guess the Cherry keyboards use the same mechanism (duh) and are less expensive. Just my 2 cents.

Re: Das Keyboard now pre-ordering Mac version of their mechanical keyboard

#15
post #9
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the keys for volume, iTunes, brightness, and Mission Control?

Well there is an option for Fx keys as Fx keys instead of shortcuts in Preferences.app But this keyboard, even if it supposedly designed for the mac, won't get my money: - weird FN keys where the right control stands, instead of the leftmost part like on most laptops (including macbooks) - eject key way too close to backspace. (really, what could go wrong especially where the delete key is - and while the mac can use…

I can see there being a market. My mom buys all her crap if and only if it says "Mac compatible" on the box. I remind her that it's all the same hardware standards these days, but the persecution complex that was ingrained in her from the bad old 1990s--countless ADB input devices, a IIsi with its own flavor of NuBus, and then later a couple awful Performas with funky PDS slots--she's just used to assuming that hardware just won't work unless it's specifically blessed as Apple compatible.

Re: Das Keyboard now pre-ordering Mac version of their mechanical keyboard

#16
post #5

It's interesting to analyze what that decided to put on the front page as their key features: - 3 points (#2, #3 and #8) related to USB functionality - 3 essentially identical points (#5, #6 and #7) about what type of keys they have - Only points #1 and #4 are something that could be considered as real differentiator by a layman - Gold-plated contacts are mentioned 4(!) times on the first page - I wonder if they prov…

Silver is a fantastic conductor, better than copper, but tarnishes far too quickly for contacts that are expected to actuate consistently over a prolonged period of time. This is a problem because silver oxides are poor conductors (as are copper oxides). Gold is an inferior conductor to silver and copper, but not by that much and it doesn't tarnish. But is it relevant? That depends on the technology you build the keyboard out of, but I think the answer is probably a firm "maybe".

As far as technology: there are basically three major varieties. One has a plastic membrane that separates two conductive surfaces; physical pressure forces the two surfaces in contact and actuates the key. These are usually fairly large contact surfaces and also are relatively sealed, but you can get situations where you need to press harder on the key to get it to actuate, and if little bits of crap get between the surfaces then the key is pretty well dead. There are a variety of ways of forcing that actuation; simple physical pressure (your microwave pad), a plunger (less prone to troublesome false actuations), the scissor switches you see in laptops or the modern Apple keyboards, but they're all basically similar as far as electrical conductivity and tend to fail in relatively similar ways.

The Model M is actually a membrane like this under the surface, but the membrane is almost totally sealed off and is operated by extremely reliable and powerful (well, for a keyboard) actuator--the buckling spring operates a small lever in the guts of the keyboard, pressing the devices in contact. As a result they get excellent lifetime and a very consistent and desirable action. The size of the lever and the distance between the key and the actuation (and also the sheer size of a Model M) mean that the contact surfaces can be relatively large. Earlier IBM keyboards used a capacitive action which is very rare today; the only one I know of is the Happy Hacking Keyboard.

The Cherry MX switches the Das uses have a mechanical switch that makes and breaks contact on every keystroke. They are mechanically more compact than the buckling spring type with similarly desirable key action, but the switch means they need to be made in a very durable way. Cherry says the MXs are good for 50 million operations; I don't know how many operations IBM guaranteed theirs for but I'm sitting next to one made in 1989 so I presume it is "a lot".

Which is a lot of words to say that "gold might make a difference and anyway Cherry doesn't sell good switches without the gold plating and they're the only people of any repute making those type of keys any more".

Edit: one other further irritation for people who type fast; N-key rollover is a term you may have heard of. On a PS/2 keyboard, you can literally activate every key on the keyboard at once and the computer can track them all. This is because the PS/2 tracks key up and key down events but doesn't try to keep state so much. USB does and because of this true N-key rollover is impossible without custom software on both ends; the best we can do is I think six, so in this case the Das is state of the art, such as it is. Supposedly the v4 Sidewinder got around this, probably through a custom driver mode.

Re: Das Keyboard now pre-ordering Mac version of their mechanical keyboard

#17
post #12

I use a unicomp ( http://pckeyboard.com/ ) buckling spring keyboard. You can order an apple key from them if you'd like.

They also appear to have an apple-specific model (unless this is the one you're talking about): http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/onthestick.html

The one pictured is hideously ugly, though.

I switched from a Model M to the default iMac keyboard (the wired one with the number pad) back in August when I switched to from linux to an iMac and it's taken me until just recently, to get used to it. I still don't like the feel of the keyboard quite as much and have been tempted to buy the Unicomp keyboard many times. That said, I do find it more comfortable than most other non-mechanical keyboards out there.

I've had several offers from people wanting to buy the Model M, but I refuse to part with it, even if I'm not using it at this very moment. I found it years ago, in the back of a storage shed, covered in about a decade of dust, grease, and cob webs, cleaned it up, and it looks practically new and works perfectly. I do so love that keyboard.

Re: Das Keyboard now pre-ordering Mac version of their mechanical keyboard

#18
post #2

1) Their "regular" keyboards work just fine with Macs (see the link in 2) for more; 2) The Das Keyboard is nice but still not as good as Model M / Unicomp SpaceSaver: http://jseliger.com/2009/11/01/product-review-das-keyboard/ . I used the review copy with an iMac. 3) Virtually any mechanical keyboard is a HUGE improvement on the default keyboards that most manufacturers ship.

I don't know about that. The current Apple keyboards are fantastic once you get used to them. My only complaint is that the caps wear down slightly faster than other keyboards because the plastic flakes off more easily under heavy wear. If you're a mechanical nut, you still have the Matias Tactile Pro ( http://matias.ca/tactilepro3/index.php ) which has the added bonus of not just the proper keycaps, but the indicato…

I cannot deal with the action on the "new" Apple keyboards. It's like typing on a pane of glass, it hurts like hell because you have to press the key to nearly its fullest extension to actuate it, and then your finger comes to an abrupt halt. They could be the very best scissor type keyboards ever made and I still couldn't use them for long without getting shooting pains.

Re: Das Keyboard now pre-ordering Mac version of their mechanical keyboard

#19
They're not kidding when they say their keyboards make an audible "click" sound... they also sell:

Reusable Earplugs: "Multi-use, comfortable earplugs for co-workers or significant others of Das Keyboard Professional or Das Keyboard Ultimate users."

Re: Das Keyboard now pre-ordering Mac version of their mechanical keyboard

#20
post #10

damn, I just switched to a microsoft 4000 ergo keyboard. I'm tempted to order one of these now because I don't think I'm sold on the ergo arrangement yet (I've only had it about a week though). Wish I saved the box for that keyboard :/ Anyone used both and can convince me not to order one of the Das'?

I don't own a Das; instead I have two of Unicomp's (http://pckeyboard.com) keyboards. Either one is miles more comfortable to type on than anything else I've ever used, most certainly including the Microsoft ergo keyboards. That said I should note that I'm partial to making a hell of a racket typing and I really really like the buckling spring action. If for some reason you don't want to sound like an entire rifle company out for a day at the range the quiet Cherry switches are pretty much the only game in town, and you might as well get them from Das as from anywhere else.
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