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Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

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Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#11
post #7

In response to the subtitle asking whether these species can help revive burnt areas: I doubt it. It is true that some species are specially adapted and even need burnt vegetation to thrive (eg. There’s a bird species I believe endogenous to the Yosemite area whose name I can’t recall). However, these species occupy a particular niche much like I expect fungi or bacteria do. For them to restore an ecosystem naturally…

> There is nothing balanced about the intensity and frequency of fires

I urge you to read about indigenous wildland fire management techniques. Also check out the 'forest fire' cellular automata model. You speak of niches as being exclusive, but ecosystems are composed of bubbling foams of overlapping, interacting niches, which merge, split, re-combine, etc. as the ecosystem progresses through modes of dynamic equilibrium. Any wildland will have fires; a mechanism for integrating those fires into the ecosystem's dynamics is inevitable, because nature operates as a ruthlessly exploitative force when a new element is introduced to an ecosystem. Thus, a niche is identified, and organisms fill it. TFA reports only on the inevitable conclusion of the natural course of things.

> just don’t see this as some kind of panacea

Why do you think the author is arguing that it is?

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#12
post #4

It is well-known that morel mushrooms do very well in a freshly-burned forest. "...black morels (Morchella elata and related species) are mostly found in coniferous forests, disturbed ground and recently burned areas." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morchella https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morchella#Association_with_wil...

I live on the west coast of north america - the last few years following wildfires my mum heads up to the scorched mountaintops to pick morels and sells them. Big hauls, hundreds of dollars' worth of rare mushrooms growing in ruined forests.

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#13
post #11
post #7

In response to the subtitle asking whether these species can help revive burnt areas: I doubt it. It is true that some species are specially adapted and even need burnt vegetation to thrive (eg. There’s a bird species I believe endogenous to the Yosemite area whose name I can’t recall). However, these species occupy a particular niche much like I expect fungi or bacteria do. For them to restore an ecosystem naturally…

> There is nothing balanced about the intensity and frequency of fires I urge you to read about indigenous wildland fire management techniques. Also check out the 'forest fire' cellular automata model. You speak of niches as being exclusive, but ecosystems are composed of bubbling foams of overlapping, interacting niches, which merge, split, re-combine, etc. as the ecosystem progresses through modes of dynamic equili…

> There is nothing balanced about the intensity and frequency of fires

A correct statement, the intensity would be lower and the frequency higher without human intervention.

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#15
post #8
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biochar turns out to be more effective in bacteria dominant soils than in fungal, where the fungi provide some of the same services. Tropical forests are bacterial, temperate fungal. I don’t think it’s an accident that terra preta (a biochar + ? complex of soil) is found in Brazil. It’s also a reason we have to be careful about global warming. Temperate forests make great carbon sinks, tropical do not. If we tip more…

Fun fact to add about carbon sinks, peat bogs can sink 4-17 times as much CO2 per acre as a forest and acts as an incredible moisture regulator. One of my more out there dreams is to start a big man made peat bog at the edge of a desert.

Where would you get all the water for that? The defining characteristic of a desert is little precipitation.

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#16
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact to add about carbon sinks, peat bogs can sink 4-17 times as much CO2 per acre as a forest and acts as an incredible moisture regulator. One of my more out there dreams is to start a big man made peat bog at the edge of a desert.

Where would you get all the water for that? The defining characteristic of a desert is little precipitation.

I'd have to find somewhere with water near a desert, that's why I specified the edge. My understanding of how some deserts form is that farming techniques or other forces can cause a region to stop retaining water as well, and if this happens in a large enough area, it can lead to less rainfall etc. I remember reading about how herd animals trampling prairie grass and shitting all over it causes it to retain significantly more moisture during dryer times. My thought is that moisture regulating bogs could possibly at least stop deserts from expanding

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where would you get all the water for that? The defining characteristic of a desert is little precipitation.

I'd have to find somewhere with water near a desert, that's why I specified the edge. My understanding of how some deserts form is that farming techniques or other forces can cause a region to stop retaining water as well, and if this happens in a large enough area, it can lead to less rainfall etc. I remember reading about how herd animals trampling prairie grass and shitting all over it causes it to retain signific…

Seems like we should be testing geoengineering in deserts first before we try it in much harsher environments like Mars. I think desalinated ocean water via low tech solar might be a good way to start - https://inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2016/08/F...

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#19
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have to find somewhere with water near a desert, that's why I specified the edge. My understanding of how some deserts form is that farming techniques or other forces can cause a region to stop retaining water as well, and if this happens in a large enough area, it can lead to less rainfall etc. I remember reading about how herd animals trampling prairie grass and shitting all over it causes it to retain signific…

Seems like we should be testing geoengineering in deserts first before we try it in much harsher environments like Mars. I think desalinated ocean water via low tech solar might be a good way to start - https://inhabitat.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2016/08/F...

My understanding is that desalinization should be a method of last resort, since it produces a lot of brine that is hard to deal with at scale in a way that isnt bad for the marine life. Depending on the desert, dew collectors might work, although I havent looked into how much water sphagnum moss needs over a year, now much a dew collector can produce, how much evaporation would happen, etc.

Re: Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil

#20
post #4

It is well-known that morel mushrooms do very well in a freshly-burned forest. "...black morels (Morchella elata and related species) are mostly found in coniferous forests, disturbed ground and recently burned areas." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morchella https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morchella#Association_with_wil...

"Do very well" may not be quite correct. When mycorrhizal hosts die, the organism puts all its energy into escaping the dead end - fruiting and dispersing spores. If there are periodic fires that kill trees, that's a great time to spread to a neighboring area. If giant fire that takes out vast areas, that may be less good.

But controlled burns and fires that otherwise do not cause complete incineration of the symbiotic trees/plants would not result in the death of the fungi. However, with the ground cleared, the spores would travel further.

There are also fire-dependent plants that are reproduction-adapted for these conditions.

"Some cones, such as those of lodgepole pine and sequoia, are pyriscent, as well as many chaparral shrubs, meaning they require heat from fire to open cones to disperse seeds."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_burn

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