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US DOT awards $800M toward street safety

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Re: US DOT awards $800M toward street safety

#11

Post by digdugdirk »

rootusrootus wrote: post #6
Maarten88 wrote: post #5

As long as safety for people is not prioritized over car speed, no amount of spending will make streets substantially more safe. Cars are the problem, they cause all the deaths.

> they cause all the deaths And have all the utility, too. It's not a simple problem.

They don't have all the utility. In fact, they're grossly overused for the utility they do provide.

There was a great article on here the other day about the evolution of pickup trucks, the user-survey statistics about how trucks are typically used was pretty eye opening. As was the size of the forward facing blindspot for your everyday stock F-150. Kids don't stand a chance.

Re: US DOT awards $800M toward street safety

#12

Post by whateverman23 »

d_burfoot wrote: post #9

So people pay taxes to the federal government, who then doles it back out to the cities and states to spend it, after taking a big cut for their own legions of bureaucrats. If these projects are important, why can't they be funded directly via city and state taxes? If I want safer roads, I can call up my state rep, who is much more likely to listen to me than my congressman or senator.

Because the cities and states that need the money aren't necessarily the ones with the money.

The richer states and cities subsidize the poorer states and cities via this exchange.

This should be considered a good thing.

Re: US DOT awards $800M toward street safety

#13

Post by digdugdirk »

d_burfoot wrote: post #9

So people pay taxes to the federal government, who then doles it back out to the cities and states to spend it, after taking a big cut for their own legions of bureaucrats. If these projects are important, why can't they be funded directly via city and state taxes? If I want safer roads, I can call up my state rep, who is much more likely to listen to me than my congressman or senator.

Sure, except for the vast majority of spaces in the US that don't have a tax base that could support any sort of infrastructure network, but still provide vital goods for the country as a whole. The majority of US agricultural output would fall under this category, for one example.

Re: US DOT awards $800M toward street safety

#14

Post by giantg2 »

walterbell wrote: post #7

https://www.enotrans.org/article/bipartisan-infrastructure-b... > Sub-state municipal governments, MPOs, and tribes will be able to apply for grants to develop Vision Zero plans ... At least 40 percent.. $400 million of the up-front $1 billion.. would have to go for the planning grants to develop Vision Zero plans. https://visionzeronetwork.org/where-to-start/ > First implemented in Sweden in the 1990s, Vision Zero h…

"Speeding kills more than 10,000 people each year in the U.S."

That's a little misleading. Excessive speed is a factor in about 30% of US traffic fatalities. That can have an overlap with other factors, like DUI, inattentive driving, or failure to yield. Speed itself is not the issue, as we see with lower fatality per mile on the autobahn, including areas without limits or with high limits. Speed mixed with bad decisions are the real problem. Driver education, testing, and consistent enforcement are really where the safety gains are.

Re: US DOT awards $800M toward street safety

#15

Post by giantg2 »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #4
walterbell wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The next round of funding opportunities, totaling $1.1 billion, is expected to be released in April

Yes, still pathetically small. The DOT spent $375 billion on roads in 2022. Most of it went towards making roads more dangerous by increasing traffic volumes and speeds.

Increasing throughput could result in a safety gain if density is reduced.

The thing is, none of this will address the real issue - drivers making bad decisions because they're ignorant. Education, testing, and consistent enforcement is how things get better.

Re: US DOT awards $800M toward street safety

#16

Post by zip1234 »

giantg2 wrote: post #14
walterbell wrote: post #7

https://www.enotrans.org/article/bipartisan-infrastructure-b... > Sub-state municipal governments, MPOs, and tribes will be able to apply for grants to develop Vision Zero plans ... At least 40 percent.. $400 million of the up-front $1 billion.. would have to go for the planning grants to develop Vision Zero plans. https://visionzeronetwork.org/where-to-start/ > First implemented in Sweden in the 1990s, Vision Zero h…

"Speeding kills more than 10,000 people each year in the U.S." That's a little misleading. Excessive speed is a factor in about 30% of US traffic fatalities. That can have an overlap with other factors, like DUI, inattentive driving, or failure to yield. Speed itself is not the issue, as we see with lower fatality per mile on the autobahn, including areas without limits or with high limits. Speed mixed with bad decis…

"Excessive speed" in the statistics is purely based on posted speed limit. The way posted speed limits are set in the US is not based on safety.

Re: US DOT awards $800M toward street safety

#17

Post by zip1234 »

> $10.4 million to address roadway departure crashes along approximately 50 miles of roadway through shoulder widening, rumble strips and other low-cost treatments.

They including a road widening as 'street safety'. Very generous interpretation of the term.

Re: US DOT awards $800M toward street safety

#18

Post by giantg2 »

digdugdirk wrote: post #11
rootusrootus wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they cause all the deaths And have all the utility, too. It's not a simple problem.

They don't have all the utility. In fact, they're grossly overused for the utility they do provide. There was a great article on here the other day about the evolution of pickup trucks, the user-survey statistics about how trucks are typically used was pretty eye opening. As was the size of the forward facing blindspot for your everyday stock F-150. Kids don't stand a chance.

Did they give any stats on the percentage of pedestrian accidents where visibility was a factor? It doesn't seem like it would be a major factor if the driver is paying attention to objects entering and leaving their blind spots, as well as the increasing use of cameras, collision detection, etc.

It seems the biggest factor is alcohol, which played a role in around 50% of pedestrian fatalities (not all on the part of the driver).

Re: US DOT awards $800M toward street safety

#19

Post by brucedawson »

giantg2 wrote: post #15
TheCoelacanth wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, still pathetically small. The DOT spent $375 billion on roads in 2022. Most of it went towards making roads more dangerous by increasing traffic volumes and speeds.

Increasing throughput could result in a safety gain if density is reduced. The thing is, none of this will address the real issue - drivers making bad decisions because they're ignorant. Education, testing, and consistent enforcement is how things get better.

The built environment can make a huge difference to how dangerous drivers are. Slip lanes that allow right-turns without slowing down could be eliminated, thus reducing or slowing many vehicle/pedestrian crashes. Right-turn-on-red could be eliminated. More speed bumps or other traffic calming measures, separated bike lanes, bike-priority streets - all these things can help to make pedestrians and cyclists less likely to be killed by drivers making bad decisions.

Education and testing alone won't stop drivers from making mistakes. I would love to see more enforcement however.

Re: US DOT awards $800M toward street safety

#20

Post by karaterobot »

zip1234 wrote: post #17

> $10.4 million to address roadway departure crashes along approximately 50 miles of roadway through shoulder widening, rumble strips and other low-cost treatments. They including a road widening as 'street safety'. Very generous interpretation of the term.

Sounds like they're talking about highways, not city streets, as I assume you are.
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