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It Has Begun - Singapore Considering Following USA's Lead With SOPA/PIPA

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Re: It Has Begun - Singapore Considering Following USA's Lead With SOPA/PIPA

#11

Post by rsynnott »

curiouscats wrote: post #10
o2sd wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Singapore has many admirable qualities Could you enumerate them? Do you (or have you) live(d) in Singapore?

- successful economic development (those born in rich countries seem to take richness for granted. It is very valuable to those being born the country for the country to be rich. Singapore is now rich. It was poor just 40 years ago) - safe city (probably the safest large city in the world) - nice, warm weather - great food - easiest country to set up a business in the world - good educational system - very good healt…

> Singapore is now rich. It was poor just 40 years ago

Many countries, particularly in that general region, have achieved that without being police states, though. Even where they had oppressive governments (as with Taiwan and South Korea back in the day), that has generally eased.

Re: It Has Begun - Singapore Considering Following USA's Lead With SOPA/PIPA

#12

Post by gojomo »

o2sd wrote: post #5
gojomo wrote: post #4

Singapore is already 'ahead' of the US in having a site-blocking mechanism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Singapor... One nice thing about the US political culture is that even those who want to censor things will try to spin their efforts as being something else; 'censorship' is a dirty word here, and even professional censors know it. This isn't the same in less individualistic cultures; there…

> Singapore has many admirable qualities Could you enumerate them? Do you (or have you) live(d) in Singapore?

I've visited twice, read a lot, and conversed with a number of people who've lived there.

I admire how productive and peaceful Singapore is, with high living standards, a diverse population, a large degree of economic freedom/opportunity, and continuing effective investment in infrastructure and education. And it got there from a somewhat chaotic and resource-constrained start as an independent country, less than 50 years ago.

From what I've read, its health-care system delivers results as well as any other highly-developed country, at much lower costs.

Re: It Has Begun - Singapore Considering Following USA's Lead With SOPA/PIPA

#13

Post by gojomo »

rsynnott wrote: post #11
curiouscats wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- successful economic development (those born in rich countries seem to take richness for granted. It is very valuable to those being born the country for the country to be rich. Singapore is now rich. It was poor just 40 years ago) - safe city (probably the safest large city in the world) - nice, warm weather - great food - easiest country to set up a business in the world - good educational system - very good healt…

> Singapore is now rich. It was poor just 40 years ago Many countries, particularly in that general region, have achieved that without being police states, though. Even where they had oppressive governments (as with Taiwan and South Korea back in the day), that has generally eased.

Despite the fact that Singapore doesn't have North American levels of political diversity and free speech protection, I don't think it's fair to imply it is a 'police state'. It's a rich city with a powerful political establishment that uses some levers of power that are taboo in North America. But there's an elected parliament, a non-corrupt bureaucracy, and a respected legal system derived from English law. (Though, there are no jury trials and the government always wins its libel cases.)

In the economic dimension, at least, the case can be made Singapore has gone farther and faster than its other 'asian tiger' peers.

And, I'm not sure that Taiwan or South Korea would come out better in a point-by-point comparison of either economic or political/social freedoms. They're all different than US standards regarding dissent, by my understanding. (I've read the least about Taiwan's internal politics.)

Re: It Has Begun - Singapore Considering Following USA's Lead With SOPA/PIPA

#14

Post by andycroll »

o2sd wrote: post #5
gojomo wrote: post #4

Singapore is already 'ahead' of the US in having a site-blocking mechanism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Singapor... One nice thing about the US political culture is that even those who want to censor things will try to spin their efforts as being something else; 'censorship' is a dirty word here, and even professional censors know it. This isn't the same in less individualistic cultures; there…

> Singapore has many admirable qualities Could you enumerate them? Do you (or have you) live(d) in Singapore?

I live here. Have for 5 years, and my latest startup will keep me here for a good number more... success permitting!

Singapore has excellent food, weather and is incredibly safe & clean. You can eat $4 noodles or $400 dollar steak. Booze is too expensive. Public transport is cheap, comfortable and mostly efficient (until a couple of recent train breakdowns).

It's also a great base for traveling Asia.

From a startup perspective, a huge amount of emphasis (read: money) is currently being applied to regional entrepreneurs to base themselves in Singapore's low-tax, straightforward business environment.

Engineers have been slightly underpaid historically, but things are beginning to improve. Coupled with the low tax rate though... the main problem is expensive rental accommodation.

The government certainly is guilty of heavy-handed-ness in a variety of situations but in general it appears to be from a sense of egocentric paternalism ('we know best what is good for you') rather than cynical exploitation.

They currently have some issues in terms of redistributing the wealth fairly to locals. The perception is that competition for jobs amongst the lower middle class is hampered by economic migration from poorer countries in the region.

Happy to talk more... but I've gone on enough already.

Re: It Has Begun - Singapore Considering Following USA's Lead With SOPA/PIPA

#15

Post by rsynnott »

gojomo wrote: post #13
rsynnott wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Singapore is now rich. It was poor just 40 years ago Many countries, particularly in that general region, have achieved that without being police states, though. Even where they had oppressive governments (as with Taiwan and South Korea back in the day), that has generally eased.

Despite the fact that Singapore doesn't have North American levels of political diversity and free speech protection, I don't think it's fair to imply it is a 'police state'. It's a rich city with a powerful political establishment that uses some levers of power that are taboo in North America. But there's an elected parliament, a non-corrupt bureaucracy, and a respected legal system derived from English law. (Though…

I'm comparing more to Europe than to the US, but in particular, Singapore is not meaningfully democratic. The one party is enormously dominant, and there's considerable evidence that other parties are pressured not to field candidates. "The government always wins its libel cases" - sort of demonstrates that (a) the government is at least unusual (normal democratic governments do not bring libel cases, or the Daily Mail would be in a lot of trouble), and (b) the judiciary is compromised.

> And, I'm not sure that Taiwan or South Korea would come out better in a point-by-point comparison of either economic or political/social freedoms

Both are now relatively democratic, though it's a recent thing.

Re: It Has Begun - Singapore Considering Following USA's Lead With SOPA/PIPA

#17

Post by virtualritz »

curiouscats wrote: post #10
o2sd wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Singapore has many admirable qualities Could you enumerate them? Do you (or have you) live(d) in Singapore?

- successful economic development (those born in rich countries seem to take richness for granted. It is very valuable to those being born the country for the country to be rich. Singapore is now rich. It was poor just 40 years ago) - safe city (probably the safest large city in the world) - nice, warm weather - great food - easiest country to set up a business in the world - good educational system - very good healt…

> easiest country to set up a business in the world

Could you elaborate what your base of comparison is to make such statement? How many countries have you set businesses up in?

Speaking just of Asia, I set up businesses in Singapore and Hong Kong. The latter was easier to setup and proved easier to run, with less running costs over the course of 3 years so far. I also found Hong Kong to be way more founder-friendly when it comes to getting angel money or VC.

Regarding the police state: 1st time I spent a day in Singapore, in 2005, on a 14h stopover from a long haul flight to Australia, I wanted to take a nap on a lawn in a public park. Two police offers told me I can't and they'll have to fine me but they'd make an exception since I'm a tourist. I was wearing a tailor-made suit btw., not some daggy traveler attire.

That was when I knew Singapore was not for me.

Don't get me wrong, I have friends living there and they like it a lot. They are a family of four and they do fit in the 'ideal standard' box of people the government there wants to have as citizens.

But be careful if you don't. Singapore has laws that make homosexuals face legal threats. And you can be fined if someone spots you walking around in your house naked (in your own 4 walls, mind you!).

Re: It Has Begun - Singapore Considering Following USA's Lead With SOPA/PIPA

#18

Post by guard-of-terra »

Why do they do this? I bet Singapore is a net importer of IP: I don't think they have much own music or movies or books or off-the-shelf software to care about the issue.

I can see how US would press them into protecting IP, but what's with the centuries-proven tactic of promising and then never doing anything?

Re: It Has Begun - Singapore Considering Following USA's Lead With SOPA/PIPA

#20

Post by guard-of-terra »

hanxu wrote: post #7

Note that the primary reason why the current state of copyright law in Singapore is overwhelmingly skewed in favour of the copyright cartel is due to the free trade agreement signed with the USA. They are obliged by the treaty to put in places laws which are draconian by US standards.

But why they actually do it? Why they enforce such laws (or do they?) They're net losers from doing so.

You could not force them to if they didn't want, I argue, so why they bother?

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