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Theory That Bitcoin Price Is Being Propped Up

fortune.com

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Re: Theory That Bitcoin Price Is Being Propped Up

#11

Post by jqpabc123 »

new2this wrote: post #7
ploum wrote: post #5

So the central argument is that whales manipulate the price by buying bitcoins once the price is low. Isn’t that the definition of a market? Could you imagine an alternative where this does not happen?

The central allegation is that Tether would print coins for themselves that were not backed by USD and then buy BTC. Thus, artificially propping up BTC in a price range where they could then quickly sell, pocket profits, and stor the money to back the Tether they just printed.

In other words, gaming the system is pretty easy when you're printing/minting the money needed to do it. This is what puts crypto in a league of it's own.

Re: Theory That Bitcoin Price Is Being Propped Up

#13

Post by gregw2 »

This article is less concrete than the Bloomberg TV coverage I saw sometime this last week that discussed the same theme/possibility of Bitcoin manipulation in recent weeks.

That coverage discussed that much of the pricing up-moves this past month are happening on weekends when there is less liquidity/action, and then saying some analysts see this as suggestive that some whale(s) are deliberately trying to push the price up (using weekends to get the most oomph for their trading dollar.) There was also an assertion that the market volumes involved in bitcoin are substantially less than in other more traditional markets so the market is more susceptible to this sort of thing.

I have no knowledge of the truth of any of this, but there was a thread of a "fact" to that argument which I didn't notice in this Fortune article (so I pass it on.)

Re: Theory That Bitcoin Price Is Being Propped Up

#14

Post by ploum »

qeternity wrote: post #10
ploum wrote: post #5

So the central argument is that whales manipulate the price by buying bitcoins once the price is low. Isn’t that the definition of a market? Could you imagine an alternative where this does not happen?

Buying it because it's low, and buying it push to higher, are different things.

how?

Re: Theory That Bitcoin Price Is Being Propped Up

#15

Post by yucky »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #11
new2this wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The central allegation is that Tether would print coins for themselves that were not backed by USD and then buy BTC. Thus, artificially propping up BTC in a price range where they could then quickly sell, pocket profits, and stor the money to back the Tether they just printed.

In other words, gaming the system is pretty easy when you're printing/minting the money needed to do it. This is what puts crypto in a league of it's own.

Isn't this what the Fed does?

Not that they're in the same league, but it feels like the same sport.

Re: Theory That Bitcoin Price Is Being Propped Up

#16

Post by ploum »

new2this wrote: post #7
ploum wrote: post #5

So the central argument is that whales manipulate the price by buying bitcoins once the price is low. Isn’t that the definition of a market? Could you imagine an alternative where this does not happen?

The central allegation is that Tether would print coins for themselves that were not backed by USD and then buy BTC. Thus, artificially propping up BTC in a price range where they could then quickly sell, pocket profits, and stor the money to back the Tether they just printed.

But then some people are selling BTC against tether. And, at some point, want to exchange tether with USD.

So I understand that Tether is shit if it’s true but it has nothing to do with bitcoin.

Re: Theory That Bitcoin Price Is Being Propped Up

#17

Post by logicalmonster »

mrguyorama wrote: post #6
logicalmonster wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The so-called regulated marketplace only has a thin veneer of propriety. Naked short selling is rampant, many financial statistics are entirely self-reported with barely a slap on the wrist for intentional fabrications, market makers have privileges to manipulate the price that normal folks don't have access to, etc. And one time the plebs got one over on the financial class (the GME thing) they literally "shut it do…

>And one time the plebs got one over on the financial class (the GME thing) they literally "shut it down". That's not what happened. Robinhood (and a couple others) weren't prepared for a stock with no fundamentals to be bought by everyone , so they didn't have the collateral for it that was required.

"Your honor, my client didn't throw Joe out of the window, he merely defenestrated him at high velocity."

"Oh I see. That's totally different. Case dismissed."

Re: Theory That Bitcoin Price Is Being Propped Up

#18

Post by kayamon »

mrguyorama wrote: post #6
logicalmonster wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The so-called regulated marketplace only has a thin veneer of propriety. Naked short selling is rampant, many financial statistics are entirely self-reported with barely a slap on the wrist for intentional fabrications, market makers have privileges to manipulate the price that normal folks don't have access to, etc. And one time the plebs got one over on the financial class (the GME thing) they literally "shut it do…

>And one time the plebs got one over on the financial class (the GME thing) they literally "shut it down". That's not what happened. Robinhood (and a couple others) weren't prepared for a stock with no fundamentals to be bought by everyone , so they didn't have the collateral for it that was required.

How did they not have the collateral? The customers money is the collateral.

Re: Theory That Bitcoin Price Is Being Propped Up

#19

Post by jqpabc123 »

yucky wrote: post #15
jqpabc123 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, gaming the system is pretty easy when you're printing/minting the money needed to do it. This is what puts crypto in a league of it's own.

Isn't this what the Fed does? Not that they're in the same league, but it feels like the same sport.

Nope. The Fed does not print money for it's own personal/private use or to directly benefit it's members.

The Fed is incentived to profit from economic growth and increased financial activity --- which theorectically works to everyone's benefit. Individual Fed board members are restricted from personally investing in the financial markets to avoid the appearance of any conflict of interest.

Re: Theory That Bitcoin Price Is Being Propped Up

#20

Post by yucky »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #19
yucky wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this what the Fed does? Not that they're in the same league, but it feels like the same sport.

Nope. The Fed does not print money for it's own personal/private use or to directly benefit it's members. The Fed is incentived to profit from economic growth and increased financial activity --- which theorectically works to everyone's benefit. Individual Fed board members are restricted from personally investing in the financial markets to avoid the appearance of any conflict of interest.

  > The Fed does not print money for it's own personal/private use or to directly benefit it's members.
You're referring to the small handful of people on its Board of Governors, but the member banks are private institutions run by private individuals who absolutely have investments.
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