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Ask HN: How can I get into cyber security research?

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Re: Ask HN: How can I get into cyber security research?

#11

Post by leoqa »

MSFT_Edging wrote: post #3

Do you want to work for a government contractor? If so, they're always looking to expand and hire more great minds. Many people who are technically skilled but relatively new to RE/VR get hired because it's such a niche field and they teach on the job. If you don't want to work for a government contractor, gl;hf because most of the money lies in alphabet agency contracts and the vulnerabilities WILL be weaponized and…

I’m down to do security contracting. I’m in a similar level of experience as the poster (HTB, CTFs) and work in Security engineering. I’d like to try more typical cybersecurity work, like malware analysis or offsec.

What companies / titles can I apply for to give it a shot? Open to getting a clearance.

Also open to government agencies if they’re in Austin.

Re: Ask HN: How can I get into cyber security research?

#12

Post by kokonoko »

Assuming vulnerability research, you need to be able to recognize bug patterns (buffer overflows, use-after-frees and such), be familiar with fuzzing, code audits, debugging. Of course understanding the code usually in C/C++ and assembly.

Assuming you have the technical skills there are companies that hire for such positions ranging at varying degrees in the "ethical" scale. See Google Project Zero and Zerodium for instance.

You don't need a PhD, CISSP, a cybersecurity bootcamp, a relevant degree or pretty much anything. You need to understand how the computer actually works. Most of the stuff needed are left out of a typical computer science curriculum. And (most) of the people hiring actually know that.

In order to do it you must simply spend so many hours to learn that stuff and then not be disheartened by the work that needs to be done. Example: No one has compiled a binary with ASAN. Do it (by spending an exorbitant amount of time to fix all the linking errors during compilation). Run the binary with literally any input. Boom, you got a bug.

Getting the role is pretty much like any other, you pass the interviews. Solving ctf like challenges is common. Finding all the bugs in a toy C program. Elaborating on the exploit ability of a latest CVE, etc.

My favorite interview question:

1. Write a hello world in C. 2. Run it 3. Explain how it works

You'd be surprised how many people actually have even a vague ideas what happens.

Re: Ask HN: How can I get into cyber security research?

#14

Post by htag »

leoqa wrote: post #11
MSFT_Edging wrote: post #3

Do you want to work for a government contractor? If so, they're always looking to expand and hire more great minds. Many people who are technically skilled but relatively new to RE/VR get hired because it's such a niche field and they teach on the job. If you don't want to work for a government contractor, gl;hf because most of the money lies in alphabet agency contracts and the vulnerabilities WILL be weaponized and…

I’m down to do security contracting. I’m in a similar level of experience as the poster (HTB, CTFs) and work in Security engineering. I’d like to try more typical cybersecurity work, like malware analysis or offsec. What companies / titles can I apply for to give it a shot? Open to getting a clearance. Also open to government agencies if they’re in Austin.

> Also open to government agencies if they’re in Austin.

If you are career focused and doing this type of work then relocating near the capital is a no-brainer. It's the difference between being in finance and working on Wallstreet or working in Denver.

Re: Ask HN: How can I get into cyber security research?

#15

Post by zalanak »

leoqa wrote: post #11
MSFT_Edging wrote: post #3

Do you want to work for a government contractor? If so, they're always looking to expand and hire more great minds. Many people who are technically skilled but relatively new to RE/VR get hired because it's such a niche field and they teach on the job. If you don't want to work for a government contractor, gl;hf because most of the money lies in alphabet agency contracts and the vulnerabilities WILL be weaponized and…

I’m down to do security contracting. I’m in a similar level of experience as the poster (HTB, CTFs) and work in Security engineering. I’d like to try more typical cybersecurity work, like malware analysis or offsec. What companies / titles can I apply for to give it a shot? Open to getting a clearance. Also open to government agencies if they’re in Austin.

Have you considered San Antonio? The headquarters of Air Forces Cyber (aka AFCYBER aka 16th Air Force) and the Texas Cryptologic Center (aka NSA-Texas) are here. Plenty of government civilian/contracting cyber security jobs.

Re: Ask HN: How can I get into cyber security research?

#16

Post by m000 »

nibbleshifter wrote: post #5
robcohen wrote: post #2

Could you give us a few examples of security research jobs? It seems pretty obvious that you’d need to go into a PhD program in cybersecurity to work on groundbreaking research. Perhaps you mean industry or implementation specific research?

Most of the actually groundbreaking and useful research in security happens out of necessity in the industry as opposed to in academia, where they seem to rediscover things that are widely known in the hacker community a few years later.

I would argue that the industry may stumble upon a security-related issue first. But stumbling, and being aware of something is not research.

Anecdotally, I vividly remember industry people showing up in academic conferences, bragging how they knew everything about bit-flips already. They didn't. They just happened to know to be aware of the phenomenon, and smart enough to understand that it should have security implications of some kind. But that's not research.

Re: Ask HN: How can I get into cyber security research?

#17

Post by _gmax0 »

1. Browse through major findings in USENIX security conferences and make note of major authors and their affiliations.

2. Think about what challenges are generally faced in the field in whatever capacity you're interested in (network security, hardware security, etc.) and what organizations (public/private/solo hacker groups) are actively working towards addressing these challenges.

3. Do some work, reach out to people, ask some questions, assert your solutions.

Re: Ask HN: How can I get into cyber security research?

#18

Post by Ixiaus »

octagons wrote: post #8

I work for the Adversary Simulation arm at IBM X-Force Red. Prior to that, I worked at Mandiant and left as a technical manager for the proactive (offensive security) consulting branch. I’d be happy to chat with you and answer any questions. I have interviewed and hired candidates for these positions many times, and have also been the one in the interview chair. My Twitter handle is in my profile. In case you’re wond…

What would you recommend engineers learn or develop a practice for on the design and implementation side of software?

Re: Ask HN: How can I get into cyber security research?

#19

Post by donutpepperoni »

kokonoko wrote: post #12

Assuming vulnerability research, you need to be able to recognize bug patterns (buffer overflows, use-after-frees and such), be familiar with fuzzing, code audits, debugging. Of course understanding the code usually in C/C++ and assembly. Assuming you have the technical skills there are companies that hire for such positions ranging at varying degrees in the "ethical" scale. See Google Project Zero and Zerodium for i…

I agree with this comment. I have no degree and no official university courses under my belt but have found bounties worth 10k+.

What helped me is that every layer of the OSI model was something that I dug in to until I understood it well. Nowadays most bounties are happening on the web (layer 7) but you can still find some fun in the other layers too.

Re: Ask HN: How can I get into cyber security research?

#20

Post by wslh »

woodruffw wrote: post #10

"Cybersecurity research" is a very large domain, so it's hard to offer a wholly encompassing answer here! The company I work for[1] does a great deal of program analysis research, primarily in and around the LLVM ecosystem. Other companies/groups in our domain(s) include Galois, Inria, and GrammaTech. In terms of working in our domain: we frequently find it difficult to hire for pre-existing compilers or program anal…

Great clarification about the research engineering concept and security. I think the kind of security services a company such as Trail of Bits does involves a lot of craft and craft is difficult to teach, it requires a lot of patience and attitude for trial and error beyond more advanced scientific methods.
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