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Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

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Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#11

Post by agentwiggles »

adamsmith143 wrote: post #4
mdanger007 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A vaccine doesn't work unless it helps the tiny fraction of fentenyl deaths who unintentnially take the drug? How about this: You're less likely to come in contact with the drug if there are fewer users getting high off it.

Is there some group of people who are taking fentanyl en masse intentionally? I know a few people who have died after taking what they thought were bars or ecstasy and died because it was laced with fentanyl. I know 0 who go out of their way to find and take fentanyl.

Wildly anecdotal, this is like thirdhand info, so take with a bunch of salt. But I have heard before that heroin/opioid addicts have begun to deliberately seek fentanyl because it's cheaper and more potent.

It makes at least some sense given the common narrative of the pipeline from painkiller addiction to heroin (i.e. it's the same relationship - people who are addicted to painkillers may transition to heroin because it's cheaper and more powerful).

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#12

Post by KMag »

adamsmith143 wrote: post #4
mdanger007 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A vaccine doesn't work unless it helps the tiny fraction of fentenyl deaths who unintentnially take the drug? How about this: You're less likely to come in contact with the drug if there are fewer users getting high off it.

Is there some group of people who are taking fentanyl en masse intentionally? I know a few people who have died after taking what they thought were bars or ecstasy and died because it was laced with fentanyl. I know 0 who go out of their way to find and take fentanyl.

Right. My understanding is that it's very common to have fake oxycodone or heroine that's fentanyl or carfentanyl, and the short half-life of fentanyl and carfentanyl means that addicts will get withdrawl symptoms in just a few hours. My understanding is that heroine and oxycodone have long enough half-lives that many people can hold down jobs and generally be pretty functional by taking small doses before work (and maybe mid-shift, not sure). My understanding is that it's nearly impossible to do something similar with fentanyl/carfentanyl.

Though, I have little exposure to hard drug culture, and get most of my information from headlines.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#13

Post by ARandomerDude »

mdanger007 wrote: post #3
languagehacker wrote: post #2

This article doesn't mention whether it prevents the cardiovascular depression that actually kills most people exposed to fentanyl. If the vaccine doesn't prevent that, it's useless. A vaccine that makes fentanyl less "fun" doesn't do anything for the people who ingest it thinking that it's something entirely different.

A vaccine doesn't work unless it helps the tiny fraction of fentenyl deaths who unintentnially take the drug? How about this: You're less likely to come in contact with the drug if there are fewer users getting high off it.

And how do you propose we get all the users vaccinated with the fentanyl jab? Another round of mass vaccinations? Make all the kids in school do it? Forced vaccinations for anyone in jail or rehab? Honestly, all of those seem like bad ideas.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#14

Post by KMag »

agentwiggles wrote: post #11
adamsmith143 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there some group of people who are taking fentanyl en masse intentionally? I know a few people who have died after taking what they thought were bars or ecstasy and died because it was laced with fentanyl. I know 0 who go out of their way to find and take fentanyl.

Wildly anecdotal, this is like thirdhand info, so take with a bunch of salt. But I have heard before that heroin/opioid addicts have begun to deliberately seek fentanyl because it's cheaper and more potent. It makes at least some sense given the common narrative of the pipeline from painkiller addiction to heroin (i.e. it's the same relationship - people who are addicted to painkillers may transition to heroin becaus…

I've heard it's cheaper, but the half-life is so short that just to keep the withdrawal symptoms at bay, addicts need to dose more often than if they're using heroine, oxycodone, etc.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#15

Post by denimnerd42 »

adamsmith143 wrote: post #4
mdanger007 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A vaccine doesn't work unless it helps the tiny fraction of fentenyl deaths who unintentnially take the drug? How about this: You're less likely to come in contact with the drug if there are fewer users getting high off it.

Is there some group of people who are taking fentanyl en masse intentionally? I know a few people who have died after taking what they thought were bars or ecstasy and died because it was laced with fentanyl. I know 0 who go out of their way to find and take fentanyl.

Yes people take fentanyl intentionally.

The real heroin, the real opioid pills, and other forms of opioids have mostly dried up. Now we get fentanyl and fentanyl analogs, and other potent synthetic opioids that aren't well tracked. The reason is that it's extremely potent so it's easier to smuggle from China, Mexico, wherever it's being made.

So now you get "pressies" [homemade pressed pills] which is diluted fentanyl. Everyone knows it's fentanyl. Everyone knows you can't get real heroin in the US anymore. They know these fake pills aren't real. Even worse, when the fentanyl dries up they start cutting it with xylazine and other bullshit that narcan doesn't even work on.

Research areas such as Kensington and the blighted areas of Baltimore. There's videos on youtube showing just how many users are out on the streets. You can imagine how many more are still not down to that level yet. You can also look at the opioid and drug subreddits. It's all fent and everyone wishes they could get their impure crappy brown heroin back.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#17

Post by SkyPuncher »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #6
mdanger007 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A vaccine doesn't work unless it helps the tiny fraction of fentenyl deaths who unintentnially take the drug? How about this: You're less likely to come in contact with the drug if there are fewer users getting high off it.

Let's go another way with this: You are extremely unlikely to ever come across a fentanyl user, even if you work for law enforcement, even if you're a LEO in a major metro. 10x people died of heart attacks than any opioid, not only fentenyl, over the past few years. Almost as many people died of cancer as heart attacks, and half as many people died of COVID as cancer. Obviously, you can't equate research with other r…

> You are extremely unlikely to ever come across a fentanyl user, even if you work for law enforcement, even if you're a LEO in a major metro.

Since you're using ancedata, I'll use ancedata as well. I don't care to find the actual data.

Fentanyl is showing up in a huge amount of urinary drug screens right now. Unfortunately, much of this is the result of other drugs being cut with Fentanyl.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#18

Post by pazimzadeh »

adamsmith143 wrote: post #4
mdanger007 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A vaccine doesn't work unless it helps the tiny fraction of fentenyl deaths who unintentnially take the drug? How about this: You're less likely to come in contact with the drug if there are fewer users getting high off it.

Is there some group of people who are taking fentanyl en masse intentionally? I know a few people who have died after taking what they thought were bars or ecstasy and died because it was laced with fentanyl. I know 0 who go out of their way to find and take fentanyl.

late stage cancer patients are often prescribed it

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#19

Post by orblivion »

Flash reactions:

* You could identify fentanyl passed off as heroin, cocaine, etc because they don't work as well.

* "Damn this cocaine is weak. Maybe I need to take more" - I could imagine this leading to more fentanyl overdoses.

* Something like this happened in neuromancer.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#20

Post by KMag »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #13
mdanger007 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A vaccine doesn't work unless it helps the tiny fraction of fentenyl deaths who unintentnially take the drug? How about this: You're less likely to come in contact with the drug if there are fewer users getting high off it.

And how do you propose we get all the users vaccinated with the fentanyl jab? Another round of mass vaccinations? Make all the kids in school do it? Forced vaccinations for anyone in jail or rehab? Honestly, all of those seem like bad ideas.

If the government subscribed wholly to utilitarian ethics, it's arguable that it would be an ethical imperative to contaminate the fentanyl supply with vaccine.

I don't agree, and think it's immoral and unethical to subject citizens to such medical treatment without informed consent. However, under some ethical systems, the improvement in aggregate health makes in an ethical necessity.

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