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Why do we convert structured data to PDFs?

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Re: Why do we convert structured data to PDFs?

#11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for responding. I'm curious why PDF doesn't have any metadata attached to it that can easily be parsed out by machines. Sigh

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensible_Metadata_Platform and https://ontology2.com/essays/LookingForMetadataInAllTheWrong...

Thanks for sharing! Why do you think XMP isn't widely adopted yet?

Re: Why do we convert structured data to PDFs?

#13
post #3

Many reasons. In finance, PDF reports are passed between companies instead of JSON/XML, etc.. because: 1. PDF is considered tempered proof. Obviously, not true, but legal is ok with that. 2. PDF can be reviewed quickly by non-technical folks, and then parsed and store into databases. 3. PDF is flat file that can be archived easily per legal, other formats such as word documents are used for that as well. In a sense,…

Shouldn't both exist? I.e. PDF for the human and data for the machine?

printers love pdf

Re: Why do we convert structured data to PDFs?

#14
post #12

Many businesses DON'T do that, and have adopted structured data transfers. I imagine you're working in an older industry like real estate?

What is an example of this? I don't work in real estate, but just based on the # of OCR companies for B2B PDF data extraction, I would imagine it's still a huge problem.

Re: Why do we convert structured data to PDFs?

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensible_Metadata_Platform and https://ontology2.com/essays/LookingForMetadataInAllTheWrong...

Thanks for sharing! Why do you think XMP isn't widely adopted yet?

There has been a lot of politics. It's yet another case study for "why we can't have nice things."

When XMP first came out, Adobe tools would look at all the metadata in, say, an image file (such as EXIF) and re-express it in XMP format. I liked that a lot because I could read that XMP packet with my RDF tools and have complete access to all the metadata with very simple software.

At some point other people in the industry accused Adobe of undermining other metadata standards and Adobe was pressured to only use XMP for data that could not be expressed with EXIF and other formats. This takes away complete and easy-to-work-with metadata unless I write my own tools that can convert the EXIF metadata to XMP and merge it with the XMP which might be in the document.

The semantic web community also has some blame here as it never embraced XMP, if Adobe had had more industry support it might not have nerfed XMP. I very much like how XMP adopted solutions to problems like keeping track of the order of authors that communities like the one behind Dublin Core haven't had the moral fortitude to address... Keeping Dublin Core in the category of "metadata for an elementary school library" as opposed to the world beating solution that XMP and DC could have been.

Re: Why do we convert structured data to PDFs?

#16
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each report costs money. People don't want to pay extra for the same data.

But they want to pay extra for expensive OCR software to parse it out instead?

It's one time fee and it's probably used in other places.

Re: Why do we convert structured data to PDFs?

#17
There are too many variables and edge cases to parse data. Dozens of text encodings, mixed with dozens of markup languages, mixed with millions of uniquely preserved legacy datasets, results in an exponential number of edge-case requirements that the world's data is currently stored in. And when you consider the high-power companies with financial investment in legacy data, as well as high-power companies protecting the proprietary rights and trademarks of their existing formats, the world has maximum incentive to use the status quo, a postscript-generated PDF which, due to it's legacy, happens to lack the structure you want.

On a more philosophical level, the PDF has structure which is probably the most generalized structure across all domains: paragraphs of text on a page. Consider that most people barely know how to search a text file for a given word, and a minuscule percent of those people who know how to query a SQL database. People simply do not have the time or resources to learn a separate domain (data structure design and interaction) apart from their own domain. In other words, there's very few people who understand or even have motivation to use tools that provide exponential return on their time (such as manipulating/filtering/working with structured data). Time passes uniformly, and you typically receive no reward other than more work for learning tools to improve your own workflow.

Software engineers have long noticed that we can successfully create "models", "view models", and "views" of data that achieve the separation of concerns that you are seeking. A PDF is nothing more than a "view" of data, which has passed through a professional who has created a "view model" of that data (he/she decided how best to organize the data on to the page), and then you read the document and "parse" the data with your intellect. There is a lot of expertise and professionalism embedded in crafting paragraphs (or other graphical representations) that you can't discredit.

There is very little software options to treat generalized, domain-specific data in this three-step manner.

Re: Why do we convert structured data to PDFs?

#18
Data exchange formats are a detail which can, often is, and quite frankly should be specified in partnership and/or vendor contracts.

PDF-based interchange of structured data as part of an ongoing relationship ... seems to reflect a poor business relationships management.

(And yes, there are all manner of organisations which fail to follow good practices whether on grounds of competence or malice, but generally, this is how I'd suggest addressing this issue. I'd also strongly suggest checking to see if such a data exchange option is already available.)

Re: Why do we convert structured data to PDFs?

#19
Exactly the sales pitch of https://sento.io/. Their platform allows companies to directly send structured data to other companies (circumventing the error prone and potentially labour intensive ds > pdf > sd transformation).

Also interesting as a business case, because 1co to 1co requires one connector on every side. Adding another co will only require 1 (not 2 nor 3) connector on the new co side; since the others are still valid hooking into the sento.io platform.

Note: I'm not affiliated, I just came across them a few months ago and this reminded me of them.

Re: Why do we convert structured data to PDFs?

#20

Data exchange formats are a detail which can, often is, and quite frankly should be specified in partnership and/or vendor contracts. PDF-based interchange of structured data as part of an ongoing relationship ... seems to reflect a poor business relationships management. (And yes, there are all manner of organisations which fail to follow good practices whether on grounds of competence or malice, but generally, this…

Hm -- don't think this is the case for legacy industries. It's just what they're used to and have been doing for years
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