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Hertz increased its fleet of EV rental cars – then, profits exploded

thecooldown.com

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Re: Hertz increased its fleet of EV rental cars – then, profits exploded

#11

Post by ajross »

briandear wrote: post #3

> This is good news for the planet, as studies show that EVs create less carbon pollution than conventional gasoline-powered cars, even after accounting for energy expended to produce, transport, and charge them How about the mining of battery materials and the effect of that? Or the disposal of batteries. This article is pretty biased in that it fails to address the externalities of the entire EV lifecycle.

Can we please stop with this copypasta in every EV thread? None of that is genuinely sustained by numbers, it's all just FUD. Batteries are, and have been for decades, among the most productively recycled materials. The number you see thrown around that Electric Vehicle batteries are not often recycled is down to the overwhelming majority of EV batteries still being productively used in their original installation.

There are better arguments, FWIW, about "EVs as personal transportation" that point out that battery production is going to be constrained as the industry evolves and that the comparatively few batteries we have should be prioritizing transit and grid storage vs. more Model S's. And I think there's a reasonable argument there (though the response will be that high margin luxury products are a much more effective way to grow that market than boring stuff).

But no, there's no one serious out there claiming that batteries are a bad environmental tradeoff.

Re: Hertz increased its fleet of EV rental cars – then, profits exploded

#12

Post by mtmail »

briandear wrote: post #3

> This is good news for the planet, as studies show that EVs create less carbon pollution than conventional gasoline-powered cars, even after accounting for energy expended to produce, transport, and charge them How about the mining of battery materials and the effect of that? Or the disposal of batteries. This article is pretty biased in that it fails to address the externalities of the entire EV lifecycle.

I wouldn't expect a 368 word article go to deep into all EV lifecycle issues or studies.

Re: Hertz increased its fleet of EV rental cars – then, profits exploded

#13

Post by metadat »

Majestic121 wrote: post #6
cs702 wrote: post #2

According to the OP, Hertz has found that EVs are "between 50-60% cheaper to maintain than gasoline-powered cars." That's a huge difference. It means that the cost of using an ICE vehicle over time is 2x greater. If the figure is anywhere near accurate, ICE vehicles are toast.

While those numbers are extremely encouraging, the fact that this is on a new fleet is to be kept in mind. What we know now is that they 50-60% cheaper to maintain during the first couple of years. Let's hope that they are also 50-60% cheaper to maintain over their whole lifetime, but this might not be as assured as one might think due to batteries which are a huge cost.

EV maintenance items should only involve tires, air filters, and wiper blades and fluid. My friends with Teslas have reported that these are the only things they've done in 50,000+ miles.

Re: Hertz increased its fleet of EV rental cars – then, profits exploded

#14

Post by jakewins »

briandear wrote: post #3

> This is good news for the planet, as studies show that EVs create less carbon pollution than conventional gasoline-powered cars, even after accounting for energy expended to produce, transport, and charge them How about the mining of battery materials and the effect of that? Or the disposal of batteries. This article is pretty biased in that it fails to address the externalities of the entire EV lifecycle.

I’m confused why you think production and disposal aren’t part of the data going into that statement. Every comparison I’ve seen includes battery production in the life cycle analysis.

Do you have an example of a full - ”cradle-to-grave” - life cycle analysis that shows EVs to have higher total emissions over their life span?

Re: Hertz increased its fleet of EV rental cars – then, profits exploded

#16

Post by CydeWeys »

almost_usual wrote: post #9

Not many details on what components failed or how maintenance is better. I don’t doubt the claims but this feels like greenwashing PR.

It's widely known that maintenance costs way less on EVs than on gas-powered cars. There are plenty of data points everywhere to confirm this. EVs are much simpler with way fewer moving parts and fluids to worry about.

Re: Hertz increased its fleet of EV rental cars – then, profits exploded

#18

Post by treeman79 »

metadat wrote: post #13
Majestic121 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While those numbers are extremely encouraging, the fact that this is on a new fleet is to be kept in mind. What we know now is that they 50-60% cheaper to maintain during the first couple of years. Let's hope that they are also 50-60% cheaper to maintain over their whole lifetime, but this might not be as assured as one might think due to batteries which are a huge cost.

EV maintenance items should only involve tires, air filters, and wiper blades and fluid. My friends with Teslas have reported that these are the only things they've done in 50,000+ miles.

So same as a gas car minus oil changes.

Re: Hertz increased its fleet of EV rental cars – then, profits exploded

#19

Post by diamondo25 »

metadat wrote: post #4
cs702 wrote: post #2

According to the OP, Hertz has found that EVs are "between 50-60% cheaper to maintain than gasoline-powered cars." That's a huge difference. It means that the cost of using an ICE vehicle over time is 2x greater. If the figure is anywhere near accurate, ICE vehicles are toast.

Strange claim, because Hertz's fleets are comprised of new and almost brand new vehicles, which usually only require oil changes. Then they sell them off after accumulating 10,000-25,000 miles, before any real maintenance is required. 20,000 miles is what, 4-6 oil changes?

I think the main issue is how people drive these cars. If you have a lot of short trips, or overrevving, or just in general abusing it (because rental), is much more common on ICE cars compared to electric ones?

Re: Hertz increased its fleet of EV rental cars – then, profits exploded

#20

Post by toast0 »

metadat wrote: post #4
cs702 wrote: post #2

According to the OP, Hertz has found that EVs are "between 50-60% cheaper to maintain than gasoline-powered cars." That's a huge difference. It means that the cost of using an ICE vehicle over time is 2x greater. If the figure is anywhere near accurate, ICE vehicles are toast.

Strange claim, because Hertz's fleets are comprised of new and almost brand new vehicles, which usually only require oil changes. Then they sell them off after accumulating 10,000-25,000 miles, before any real maintenance is required. 20,000 miles is what, 4-6 oil changes?

> 20,000 miles is what, 4-6 oil changes?

Most new cars have a 10,000 mile factory oil change interval. PHEVs usually go for 20,000.

Rental cars sometimes have a hard service life, but I'd put that range at maybe 1-2 changes. Which isn't much at all.

More likely there's a usage difference; if you're puttering around from the airport to the hotel and back, you might pick an EV, but if you're renting a car to drive a longer distance one-way trip, it's mostly going to be an ICE, and you're gonna put some miles on it at high speed, etc.

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