11–20 of 78 posts
It's fine to include archive links in the thread, for example if a server is overwhelmed, but please post the original source as the top URL. " Please submit the original source. If a post reports on something found on another site, submit the latter. " - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We've changed the URL from https://web.archive.org/web/20230112230330/https://paizo.com... now.
Lots of other RPG publishers are joining in too so the license is definitely finding broad acceptance in the community. Curious to see WotC's next move.
In a way, I always knew this was coming. When lots of the people behind 3e left, I assumed that the OGL wouldn’t last forever, once there was enough money on the table. It took a decade longer than I thought, and I wasn’t expecting them to revoke the previous license, but instead remove the OGL from new versions. Either way, rent seekers gotta rent seek.
It's fine to include archive links in the thread, for example if a server is overwhelmed, but please post the original source as the top URL. " Please submit the original source. If a post reports on something found on another site, submit the latter. " - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We've changed the URL from https://web.archive.org/web/20230112230330/https://paizo.com... now.
Lots of other RPG publishers are joining in too so the license is definitely finding broad acceptance in the community. Curious to see WotC's next move.
WotC’s next move should be to go the way of TSR and the dodo. In a way, I always knew this was coming. When lots of the people behind 3e left, I assumed that the OGL wouldn’t last forever, once there was enough money on the table. It took a decade longer than I thought, and I wasn’t expecting them to revoke the previous license, but instead remove the OGL from new versions. Either way, rent seekers gotta rent seek.
Well, to be fair they did do exactly that with D&D 4e and the GSL. Which bombed spectacularly, as their audience continued to play 3.5 and Pathfinder which continued to use the OGL.
This is actually WotC learning from their mistakes. If they launched 5.5e with a regressive and user-hostile licence, people would just ignore it and splinter the community and hurt the new edition.
Instead — the way wotc is attempting here — they blow up the old editions entirely and shut down all their competition in one legal maneuver. Existing customers have little recourse, they still enjoy ttrpg with their friends and d&d has significant brand strength as well as being the only company left publishing. Nerds will whine but the company now is now well-positioned to be the sole competitor in the increasingly profitable digital future. They don’t have to spent 10 figures on the next dndbeyond, they can just sue them. They don’t have to built a better vtt than foundry, they just shut down foundry and theirs is better by default — tada!
They may have underestimated how loudly nerds like me are whining, and voting with our wallets. And perhaps also o overestimating how successful their legal shenanigans would be — I’m not a lawyer but so much I’ve read from legal analysis suggests wotc is in a dubious position and unlikely to succeed here.
[0] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2023/01/beware-gifts-dragons-h...
> Ultimately, we plan to find a nonprofit with a history of open source values to own this license (such as the Linux Foundation). I'm not sure if the Linux Foundation is just a relevant example here or an actual contender to be the steward. I kind of hope it's the latter. TTRPG rules are close enough to code right? Structured instructions executed by humans with some flavor text at least.
But regardless of that, open source licences have nothing to do with what the code is doing; they are about using certain specific code in other products. Code is not copyrightable, so you can take some closed-source code and replicate its functionality in a different way - using different language idioms, or a completely different language - completely legally.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
WotC’s next move should be to go the way of TSR and the dodo. In a way, I always knew this was coming. When lots of the people behind 3e left, I assumed that the OGL wouldn’t last forever, once there was enough money on the table. It took a decade longer than I thought, and I wasn’t expecting them to revoke the previous license, but instead remove the OGL from new versions. Either way, rent seekers gotta rent seek.
> and I wasn’t expecting them to revoke the previous license, but instead remove the OGL from new versions Well, to be fair they did do exactly that with D&D 4e and the GSL. Which bombed spectacularly, as their audience continued to play 3.5 and Pathfinder which continued to use the OGL. This is actually WotC learning from their mistakes. If they launched 5.5e with a regressive and user-hostile licence, people would…
It doesn’t matter if they succeed in court or not. People will stop writing right now (and write for other systems), because who knows if the rug will get pulled under them in the future. Six months from now, maybe they decide the new license is that they get 100% of your revenue — we know they untrustworthy businessmen already. Hasbro pulling an Elon is not them “learning from their mistakes”, it’s just another offense.
While I understand the desire to define things legally - both by those who want the games to be open and by those who want to control them - game mechanics and rules are NOT copyrightable. We never needed OGL to publish material compatible with D&D (or any other system) in the first place [0]. [0] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2023/01/beware-gifts-dragons-h...
Excepting a few, most of their monsters are generic fantasy monsters too or random combinations of "let's stick this head on this body".
The stuff that is copyrightable they do a terrible job at monetizing (Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Eberon, various planes, higher powers, etc.)