the thing here that gets me c when compared to software is they had a schedule and they hit it early. This can happen in software, I think the appstore/iphone sdk is an example of having a date to hit and sticking to it, but it’s rare. I’d love to read an article about how the development of the iphone sdk and app store was managed, to see if it parallels these conclusions from the Empire State Building.
The Tyranny of ‘The Plan' (2013)
11–20 of 56 posts
Re: The Tyranny of ‘The Plan' (2013)
#12I found the OP very insightful, and would recommend reading and thinking about it. The lessons we can draw from the construction of The Empire State and other buildings of that era, before the advent of computers, are applicable to any large, capital-intensive project. My only reservation is that the OP fails to mention that some workers died during the construction of The Empire State building: According to the buil…
> No one in the developed world would want to finish a project faster and for less money if the cost had to be measured in human lives. Depends. I think the Manhattan Project killed more people (not including using the bombs in combat).
Good point! I added " -- expect in extreme circumstances, like war" to the last paragraph. Thank you.
Re: The Tyranny of ‘The Plan' (2013)
#13The "four pacemakers" where "every one of these workflows was separate from the other workflows" could be read like an argument for microservices, doesn't it? I assume it's harder to make software as independent as say windows and floors, but I find it interesting to think about.
Re: The Tyranny of ‘The Plan' (2013)
#14I'm not really understanding the distinction between a "plan" and a "workflow". It sounds like they had a plan but we are bending over backwards in TFA to call it something else because a plan is bad in some agile circles.
it's subtle, but "plan" (material resource planning, MRP) is essentially waterfall in this context, where you design first, then do work breakdown into a waterfall schedule. it suffers from cascading delays because of the bullwhip effect (among other things). it's project oriented (a 1-off, 1-time event). in contrast, "workflow" is akin to kanban in this context. you start with constraints (in this case time and mone…
I think what trips me up then is that "Plan" refers to a specific type of planning, I guess "MRP", but colloquially it would refer to anything that attempts to project how something will be done. Unfortunately I've had employers insist that planning in the colloquial sense was akin to waterfall and since we were agile it was verboten.
Re: The Tyranny of ‘The Plan' (2013)
#15I found the OP very insightful, and would recommend reading and thinking about it. The lessons we can draw from the construction of The Empire State and other buildings of that era, before the advent of computers, are applicable to any large, capital-intensive project. My only reservation is that the OP fails to mention that some workers died during the construction of The Empire State building: According to the buil…
> No one here would want to finish a project faster if the cost would be measured in human lives. People—including some here—choose risk to life for greater productivity, all the time. Every advocate of going back to the office, in places without excellent public transit or walkability, is proposing to trade some serious micromorts for extra productivity (driving's dangerous).
Yeah, and that's a big problem, that leads to people not really having the choice at all, because they are forced to keep up with people who value productivity over safety.
Re: The Tyranny of ‘The Plan' (2013)
#16I found the OP very insightful, and would recommend reading and thinking about it. The lessons we can draw from the construction of The Empire State and other buildings of that era, before the advent of computers, are applicable to any large, capital-intensive project. My only reservation is that the OP fails to mention that some workers died during the construction of The Empire State building: According to the buil…
BLS says that roughly 5000 people die in construction accidents annually. those deaths are certainly tragic, but not disproportional.
Ordinary house roofing work (and, by extension, things like rooftop solar installations/maintenance) is terribly dangerous. Tons of deaths and serious injuries per year. Little attention on it at all, let alone political movement toward making it safer.
Re: The Tyranny of ‘The Plan' (2013)
#17I found the OP very insightful, and would recommend reading and thinking about it. The lessons we can draw from the construction of The Empire State and other buildings of that era, before the advent of computers, are applicable to any large, capital-intensive project. My only reservation is that the OP fails to mention that some workers died during the construction of The Empire State building: According to the buil…
> No one here would want to finish a project faster if the cost would be measured in human lives. People—including some here—choose risk to life for greater productivity, all the time. Every advocate of going back to the office, in places without excellent public transit or walkability, is proposing to trade some serious micromorts for extra productivity (driving's dangerous).
I think there's a pretty clear line in many places in today's western world about the difference between "directly causing death" and "causes fractional death."
So comparing "directly dying from construction" to "commuting in a car" is a big reach.
Diet, stress, physically-taxing-if-not-directly-fatal jobs, cancer-linked chemicals, pollution, etc. Tradeoffs made at both the societal and individual level every day.
Even in cars, consider the difference in attention "death from direct failure of the vehicle or manufacturer" gets compared to the more-random "accident that could've happened to anyone" increased-death-probability cases.
And that ties us neatly back to construction! We have many more things in place for construction safety - from regulations to equipment to practices - but it doesn't prevent there from being any loss of life, still. We just don't want to go backward.
Re: The Tyranny of ‘The Plan' (2013)
#18This article reminded me of this other classic: https://web.mnstate.edu/alm/humor/ThePlan.htm
Re: The Tyranny of ‘The Plan' (2013)
#19[deleted]
Re: The Tyranny of ‘The Plan' (2013)
#20[flagged]