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Only the richest ancient Athenians paid taxes

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Re: Only the richest ancient Athenians paid taxes

#11

Post by ggm »

actionfromafar wrote: post #8
alchemist1e9 wrote: post #3

Is there any information on the total tax burden to the economy? or even the defense budget as a percentage of estimated GDP? I’m suspecting it was a much lower percentage overall, maybe 10% maximum. This crucial number is conveniently omitted in the article.

conveniently?

A basis for argument by low tax fanatics that think a modern Athenian state is possible, drugs, TV shows, VLSI and togas, all in with jets and retsina.

UK income tax was notoriously applied as a temporary expedient. The low tax fans want a return to the pre Victorian levels of poverty that went hand in hand with the non-welfare state.

Re: Only the richest ancient Athenians paid taxes

#14

Post by jackcosgrove »

cplusplusfellow wrote: post #4

Little bit smaller government and so a lot less to pay for.

I looked at the article for numbers, and the closest I could find was that a trirarch paid many multiples of a laborer's yearly salary. That could mean the benefactor was shouldering a large burden, or that the benefactors were stupendously wealthy compared to the average laborer and the financial obligation was not heavy for them. I don't know what the case was.

I could find no estimates of total tax burden, which at this point would be mostly conjecture but better than nothing.

Compared to a modern-day country like Belgium or France, where the tax burden is about 44-46% of GDP, I would wager that the Athenian tax burden was very low as a fraction of the economy. To achieve modern levels of taxation you need a bureaucracy which did not exist in classical Athens.

Re: Only the richest ancient Athenians paid taxes

#16

Post by utopcell »

The system did not rely on honor alone to work. If a rich citizen was tapped to provide his services, he could either perform them or choose another, richer, citizen to fund the city. That citizen could either accept the honor, or swap wealth with the original citizen and pass back the honor.

Re: Only the richest ancient Athenians paid taxes

#17

Post by tempsy »

carbocation wrote: post #15
tempsy wrote: post #13

if you make under $50k-$70k a year do you not pay very little?

No? Just plugging this in - with $70k income, you pay $8,142 in federal tax/withholding, a 14% effective tax rate.

this doesn’t factor in the $12k deduction and saving in a tax shielded 401k or IRA though which should both dramatically reduce adjusted income come tax time

plus tax advantages you get when you are married and have dependents

Re: Only the richest ancient Athenians paid taxes

#18

Post by adolph »

The headline is clickbait.

Much of [Athenian government] income came from publicly owned farmland and silver mines that were leased to the highest bidders, but Athens also taxed imports and exports and collected fees from immigrants and prostitutes as well as fines imposed on losers in many court cases. In general, there were no direct taxes on income or wealth.

Re: Only the richest ancient Athenians paid taxes

#19

Post by whakim »

jackcosgrove wrote: post #14
cplusplusfellow wrote: post #4

Little bit smaller government and so a lot less to pay for.

I looked at the article for numbers, and the closest I could find was that a trirarch paid many multiples of a laborer's yearly salary. That could mean the benefactor was shouldering a large burden, or that the benefactors were stupendously wealthy compared to the average laborer and the financial obligation was not heavy for them. I don't know what the case was. I could find no estimates of total tax burden, which a…

I speculated about the tax burden in another post, but levels of inequality were much higher in the ancient world then they are today. Putting aside that TFA doesn't really define "average laborer," 20 years of a "skilled" salary sounds like a relatively small amount of money to the wealthiest 1%.

Re: Only the richest ancient Athenians paid taxes

#20

Post by alxmng »

utopcell wrote: post #16

The system did not rely on honor alone to work. If a rich citizen was tapped to provide his services, he could either perform them or choose another, richer, citizen to fund the city. That citizen could either accept the honor, or swap wealth with the original citizen and pass back the honor.

That’s interesting. Did anyone actually choose to swap wealth? I can’t imagine why one would choose that option.
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