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Detangle: AI-generated summaries of legal docs

detangle.ai

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Re: Detangle: AI-generated summaries of legal docs

#11

Post by fellerts »

Who is the target audience for something like this? I'm not sure anybody is going to pay to have Apple's ToS simplified before clicking "agree". On the other hand, if you are squinting at a contract that actually matters, I don't think a service like this gives sufficient understanding of what all that legalese would actually mean if shit hits the fan. For example, changing the applicable law in a contract can yield wildly different interpretations without changing a word in the contract iself. This is why you should seek professional help when in doubt.

You say "The summaries are to help inform conversations with actual lawyers", but would a lawyer give a rats ass about a layman's interpretation of an AI-backed translation of a legal doc from a company who "does not guarantee that the stuff on the website is good or works"? IANAL but I don't think so.

Re: Detangle: AI-generated summaries of legal docs

#12

Post by bronco21016 »

fellerts wrote: post #11

Who is the target audience for something like this? I'm not sure anybody is going to pay to have Apple's ToS simplified before clicking "agree". On the other hand, if you are squinting at a contract that actually matters, I don't think a service like this gives sufficient understanding of what all that legalese would actually mean if shit hits the fan. For example, changing the applicable law in a contract can yield…

I’m a unionized employee who is currently waiting on finalized legal language for a new contract.

A lot of my time will be spent reviewing a diff between the current agreement and the proposed agreement but it’s a 500 page document. I might give this product a try just to see what it spits out. I could see this being incredibly useful if it could write a plain language, non-biased, summary of changes.

Re: Detangle: AI-generated summaries of legal docs

#14

Post by nashashmi »

I work through a bunch of contract documents reissued with a just a few changes. I need a service that would identify what the changes are instead of me going through each document and reading it over again Or doing a comparison of previously issued documents with this one.

Re: Detangle: AI-generated summaries of legal docs

#15

Post by NoboruWataya »

fellerts wrote: post #11

Who is the target audience for something like this? I'm not sure anybody is going to pay to have Apple's ToS simplified before clicking "agree". On the other hand, if you are squinting at a contract that actually matters, I don't think a service like this gives sufficient understanding of what all that legalese would actually mean if shit hits the fan. For example, changing the applicable law in a contract can yield…

> You say "The summaries are to help inform conversations with actual lawyers", but would a lawyer give a rats ass about a layman's interpretation of an AI-backed translation of a legal doc from a company who "does not guarantee that the stuff on the website is good or works"? IANAL but I don't think so.

If you are conversing with your own lawyer, you should be getting your summary from them, as that way you can be fairly sure it's correct (and you can probably sue them if it's not). That's part of a lawyer's job, explaining the law to their clients.

If you are conversing with someone else's lawyer, and you don't have your own lawyer, you are dangerously close to relying on this software for legal advice, which, given how confidently incorrect AI can be, could end in tears.

Re: Detangle: AI-generated summaries of legal docs

#16

Post by Shpigford »

oa335 wrote: post #10
falcolas wrote: post #8

Given how confident AI can be when it's incorrect, it feels like a bit of a problem to use AI with legal docs, since you can't really trust it to be correct (and the cost of being incorrect may be absurdly high).

Agreed, I would still want a lawyer to take a look or anything of importance.

I also would want a lawyer to take a look. Hence the note saying to talk to a lawyer. ;)

The reality is, even knowing what to ask a lawyer can be difficult and it's not economically viable to ask a lawyer to summarize a 100-page legal document into text you can wrap your head around.

Detangle just helps give some clarity so that you can further a conversation with a lawyer, or even just ask for clarification from the person who sent you the document.

"Hey, this paragraph seems to imply XYZ...is that the case?"

I'm making zero claims that this should replace a lawyer or be used as a replacement for legally binding text.

Re: Detangle: AI-generated summaries of legal docs

#17

Post by traceroute66 »

I'm sorry, but in the nicest possible way, this is bullshit.

Anybody who has been in business-roles that involve reviewing legal documents will tell you that.

TL;DR three things:

        1. The AI will NOT tell you if it is the right document for the context, only a lawyer will do that
        2. The AI is unlikely to correctly analyse the document, clauses in a legal document have inter-relation with each other and with the general context (perhaps even with other legal documents you have previously signed). That sort of analysis is only something a lawyer can do.
        3. Perhaps MOST IMPORTANTLY ... with legal documents, often the important thing is not what is IN the document, but what is NOT IN there. Only a lawyer can tell you what is missing in a legal document AND help you get that missing stuff negotiated into it.
Really, I'd run away from something like this as fast as you can.

Re: Detangle: AI-generated summaries of legal docs

#18

Post by NoboruWataya »

andrewfromx wrote: post #3
Shpigford wrote: post #2

Detangle gives you AI-generated summaries of your legal docs so you can understand what you're signing. Here's the YC SAFE, for example: https://detangle.ai/examples/yc-safe

I wonder, what happens when you read just the summary of a complex section, sign, and then years later are in a lawsuit. If Detangled's algorithm in shown to have clearly written the summary wrong... are they in any way liable? hehe notice their own terms with summaries: https://detangle.ai/terms

From the original text:

> We may suspend or terminate your right to use our website and terminate these Terms of Service immediately upon written notice to you for any breach of these Terms of Service.

From the summary:

> We can end this agreement any time we want.

I read these as being quite different? The original text says they can only terminate for a breach by the user of the ToS, not simply "any time we want".

I get that the service isn't supposed to replace actual legal advice but surely differences as glaring as these limit the usefulness of the summaries.

Re: Detangle: AI-generated summaries of legal docs

#19

Post by mrstone »

Shpigford wrote: post #13
nerdponx wrote: post #9

What are they doing with all the uploaded document data? I didn't see that in their terms of use.

We use GPT-3 to summarize it the document data. Then 24 hours later we completely delete all text, URLs and file uploads.

You do nothing with the data in the interim? I find that hard to believe.
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