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A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

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Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#11

Post by kingkawn »

jobu wrote: post #4
jxcole wrote: post #3

I would be interested to see before and after shots. Was their advertising problem really so bad or was just about the same as any other city? Edit: Found one: http://banbillboardblight.org/?page_id=4251

So they didn't eliminate all signage, but it was rather dramatically reduced. I grew up in a suburb of Minneapolis that had similar restrictions on advertising, and I can say that it is very nice as a resident. Now when I visit however, I find it difficult to locate some of the new businesses. I'm curious how this law has affected business revenue from tourists in Sao Paulo.

"Now when I visit however, I find it difficult to locate some of the new businesses."

I'd be shocked if many people, on this site in paritcular, used street ads as their primary means of locating new businesses they'd been wanting to find.

Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#12

Post by jt2190 »

alextp wrote: post #2

Indeed, after living in são paulo for a while going anywhere else in brazil lead to a slight culture shock. In a sense this didn't hurt advertisers at all, as the demand for advertisement stayed exactly the same, they just had to change the available media. Think of it as a prisoner's dillema-like situation, where defecting is plastering a huge sign in front of people. It's better for everyone if nobody does that, bu…

Are you sure that the policy wasn't designed to transfer control of the outdoor advertising industry to a subset of advertisers? You know... ban advertising, and kill off the existing outdoor-ad only companies. Then reintroduce outdoor advertising, granting permits only to some group of "respectable" advertisers.

I'm not saying that this is the case here, but it's a fair question, I think.

[Edit: Here is an older but more-balanced article from the BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5355692.stm]

Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#14

Post by ricardobeat »

kingkawn wrote: post #11
jobu wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they didn't eliminate all signage, but it was rather dramatically reduced. I grew up in a suburb of Minneapolis that had similar restrictions on advertising, and I can say that it is very nice as a resident. Now when I visit however, I find it difficult to locate some of the new businesses. I'm curious how this law has affected business revenue from tourists in Sao Paulo.

"Now when I visit however, I find it difficult to locate some of the new businesses." I'd be shocked if many people, on this site in paritcular, used street ads as their primary means of locating new businesses they'd been wanting to find.

These laws also forbid huge facades / signage containing brand advertising, so logos are smaller and store fronts less attention-grabbing. I think that's what he was talking about.

This store, for instance, was fined R$300.000,00 for it's signage a couple months ago: http://img.vejasp.abril.com.br/t/2/t420x280/ponto-frio-megas... (the penguin is their trademark)

Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#15

Post by tokenadult »

jobu wrote: post #4
jxcole wrote: post #3

I would be interested to see before and after shots. Was their advertising problem really so bad or was just about the same as any other city? Edit: Found one: http://banbillboardblight.org/?page_id=4251

So they didn't eliminate all signage, but it was rather dramatically reduced. I grew up in a suburb of Minneapolis that had similar restrictions on advertising, and I can say that it is very nice as a resident. Now when I visit however, I find it difficult to locate some of the new businesses. I'm curious how this law has affected business revenue from tourists in Sao Paulo.

I live in a suburb of Minneapolis now, and I don't recall there being a city in this area with the phenomenon you mention, so I'd be glad if you would kindly let me know which city you have in mind. I'll try to look for some businesses there and see what the experience is like.

Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#16

Post by kawera »

jt2190 wrote: post #12
alextp wrote: post #2

Indeed, after living in são paulo for a while going anywhere else in brazil lead to a slight culture shock. In a sense this didn't hurt advertisers at all, as the demand for advertisement stayed exactly the same, they just had to change the available media. Think of it as a prisoner's dillema-like situation, where defecting is plastering a huge sign in front of people. It's better for everyone if nobody does that, bu…

Are you sure that the policy wasn't designed to transfer control of the outdoor advertising industry to a subset of advertisers? You know... ban advertising, and kill off the existing outdoor-ad only companies. Then reintroduce outdoor advertising, granting permits only to some group of "respectable" advertisers. I'm not saying that this is the case here, but it's a fair question, I think. [Edit: Here is an older but…

A fair question for sure but it wasn't the case in São Paulo.

Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#17

Post by eternalban »

ams6110 wrote: post #8
jobu wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they didn't eliminate all signage, but it was rather dramatically reduced. I grew up in a suburb of Minneapolis that had similar restrictions on advertising, and I can say that it is very nice as a resident. Now when I visit however, I find it difficult to locate some of the new businesses. I'm curious how this law has affected business revenue from tourists in Sao Paulo.

I've had the same problem in areas where business signage is strictly regulated. It's harder to find the place you're looking for when the only sign is very low to the ground and unobtrusive, and you can't see it until you're right on top of it.

Clearly that doesn't stop the mail being delivered to these businesses. Using their address as a navigational aid would seem to suffice.

That does not address the business concern of capturing new business via signage, but the whole point here is that urban dwellers also have legitimate concerns and that private business interest should yield when reasonable collective concerns are being addressed.

[edit: in fact, there is startup opportunity here that can address both concerns, and it would seem to be a win-win. I don't have a car myself, but last time I rode one shutgun, the nav device (Lexus) had option to pepper the map with fast food, etc. icons. Hang your billboard there and spare the rest of us who object to being subjected to visual/textual noise that we have no means to avoid otherwise.]

Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#18

Post by ars »

jxcole wrote: post #3

I would be interested to see before and after shots. Was their advertising problem really so bad or was just about the same as any other city? Edit: Found one: http://banbillboardblight.org/?page_id=4251

After watching that, I could easily support banning 3rd party advertising.

But removing the ads for the business just under the ad does not strike me as better. It makes the business district look sleepy and quiet, rather than active and bustling.

And as a resident I don't mind ads telling me what I can do/get/buy at a location - that's sort of what I want when I visit a business district.

Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#19

Post by kinow »

I was born and live in Sao Paulo, and this law (Lei Cidade Limpa) really helped to reduce the visual pollution here.

Here are some links for pictures of before/after. For more images, you can search for images of Lei Cidade Limpa SP or Lei Cidade Limpa São Paulo (we use the tilde here, you can remove it if you prefer)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tonydemarco/sets/72157600075508...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sueluzfotos/page4/

http://ftorquato.wordpress.com/2008/08/26/gilberto-kassab-de...

And here's a link with a article in Sao Paulo prefecture about this law (google-translated to English).

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&tl...

Cheers, -B

Re: A Happy, Flourishing City With No Advertising

#20

Post by rhygar »

The cost of this is a loss of jobs for sign makers (and their suppliers), marketing agencies, and a loss of income for new businesses (and their suppliers) that want to make their presence known. Basically, the economy in that city is worse off overall as a result, and there are fewer jobs to go around.
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