Live data from Hacker News

More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

utcc.utoronto.ca

11–20 of 37 posts

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#11
post #2

This article is pretty shallow. Despite the interesting title, the author is lukewarm on Rust, hasn’t used Rust that much, and hasn’t explored the space of C replacement OSS. Not enough expertise for an insight; it feels half “go with the flow”, half FOMO.

On the contrary, I think this outside view is a really good look at the forces driving rust adoption beyond developer enthusiasm.

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#12
post #3

A language is only good when the zealots don't have to constantly push it and persuade people to adopt it, it happens on it's own due to it's usability and features.

I mean, this pretty much describes rust. Its merits speak for themselves, and people who were skeptical of it and try it very quickly find out the language is really well designed and pleasant to use (once you get used to the borrow checker).

There are a ton of niche languages that have very enthusiastic fanbases, but they don't get the same snowball effect rust has gotten because it's a great language on so many dimensions.

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#13
After trying rust only for a few hours i really wonder how come this language remain the most loved one on surveys. From the outside it looks like a niche language you'd only use for super constrained or critical environments.

Take backend dev for example: unless you're trying to squeeze the last drop of performance from your CPU, most concurrency issues are usually dealt with at the middleware level (DB, Queue, Nginx, etc), and most performance issues are usually I/O related.

I'm currently evaluating developing a cross-platform mobile native library using Rust, but i really don't see myself inflicting the pain of that language to the rest of my team.

Or maybe it's just a reflection on how active the community is ?

edit: i realize a lot of people are probably still coding in C because they have no other choice, and for them it's probably a good idea to switch. However, for all the rest i really don't see the point.

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#14
post #13

After trying rust only for a few hours i really wonder how come this language remain the most loved one on surveys. From the outside it looks like a niche language you'd only use for super constrained or critical environments. Take backend dev for example: unless you're trying to squeeze the last drop of performance from your CPU, most concurrency issues are usually dealt with at the middleware level (DB, Queue, Ngin…

>After trying rust only for a few hours i really wonder how come this language remain the most loved one on surveys

Arguably, it's because you tried it "only for a few hours". Rust has a relatively steep learning curve and it usually takes several months to become comfortable with it. But once you get over it, it often becomes quite hard to return to your previous languages, be it Python or C/C++.

Yes, there are tasks which are ill-fit for Rust and your IO-bound backend example is a good one. Not only Rust ecosystem is somewhat underdeveloped in this area (and don't get me started on Rust async and the heap of troubles it causes...), but also you have business requirements which change unpredictably and Rust's strictness introduces a certain friction in such environment.

But I think your mobile library can be a good project to properly learn Rust. If it's properly encapsulated, I don't think it will cause much trouble to your team outside of build system changes and risks associated with you being its sole developer.

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#15
post #13

After trying rust only for a few hours i really wonder how come this language remain the most loved one on surveys. From the outside it looks like a niche language you'd only use for super constrained or critical environments. Take backend dev for example: unless you're trying to squeeze the last drop of performance from your CPU, most concurrency issues are usually dealt with at the middleware level (DB, Queue, Ngin…

Rust has a unique experience. Initially you hate it, right up to the point where you grok it, then you love it because you realize it save you from so many boneheaded errors that C/C++ allow you to do easily. You can still do them in Rust, but you can't do them unintentionally (generally). The borrow checker, the forced composition over inheritance, and the trait mechanisms are major wins.

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#16
post #13

After trying rust only for a few hours i really wonder how come this language remain the most loved one on surveys. From the outside it looks like a niche language you'd only use for super constrained or critical environments. Take backend dev for example: unless you're trying to squeeze the last drop of performance from your CPU, most concurrency issues are usually dealt with at the middleware level (DB, Queue, Ngin…

Rust has a unique experience. Initially you hate it, right up to the point where you grok it, then you love it because you realize it save you from so many boneheaded errors that C/C++ allow you to do easily. You can still do them in Rust, but you can't do them unintentionally (generally). The borrow checker, the forced composition over inheritance, and the trait mechanisms are major wins.

I tried Rust once and found it pretty interesting. The moment I left was when I wanted to write a simple web scraper, so I found a library, installed it… and found out that it had downloaded a gigabyte of dependencies.

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#17
post #10
post #3

A language is only good when the zealots don't have to constantly push it and persuade people to adopt it, it happens on it's own due to it's usability and features.

A language that isn't pushed in some form, big corporation, zealots or killer framework, usually dies. No famous mainstream language in use today, has ever been adopted based on "it happens on it's own due to it's usability and features". Before you rush out to write something like C, remember that it only came to use thanks to AT&T, Bell Labs and UNIX.

Even a language pushed by corporations, zealots, and a framework usually dies. Fizzling is absolutely the normal fate of any new language, absent a miracle.

Even a language that seems to have everything going for it can fade out. Ruby's success used to be thought assured. Then it suddenly wasn't. Python has run the oddest course. It plodded along for two decades, almost imploded on the 2->3 transition, and then got its miracle.

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#18
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A language that isn't pushed in some form, big corporation, zealots or killer framework, usually dies. No famous mainstream language in use today, has ever been adopted based on "it happens on it's own due to it's usability and features". Before you rush out to write something like C, remember that it only came to use thanks to AT&T, Bell Labs and UNIX.

Even a language pushed by corporations, zealots, and a framework usually dies. Fizzling is absolutely the normal fate of any new language, absent a miracle. Even a language that seems to have everything going for it can fade out. Ruby's success used to be thought assured. Then it suddenly wasn't. Python has run the oddest course. It plodded along for two decades, almost imploded on the 2->3 transition, and then got i…

> Fizzling is absolutely the normal fate of any new language, absent a miracle.

There are more ways to be dead than being alive.

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#19
post #13

After trying rust only for a few hours i really wonder how come this language remain the most loved one on surveys. From the outside it looks like a niche language you'd only use for super constrained or critical environments. Take backend dev for example: unless you're trying to squeeze the last drop of performance from your CPU, most concurrency issues are usually dealt with at the middleware level (DB, Queue, Ngin…

It’s not just about performance. It’s the maintainability and correctness that its amazing type system gives you. Refactoring and maintaining code is so much easier when the compiler tells you when you missed something.

Re: More use of Rust is inevitable in open source software

#20
post #10
post #3

A language is only good when the zealots don't have to constantly push it and persuade people to adopt it, it happens on it's own due to it's usability and features.

A language that isn't pushed in some form, big corporation, zealots or killer framework, usually dies. No famous mainstream language in use today, has ever been adopted based on "it happens on it's own due to it's usability and features". Before you rush out to write something like C, remember that it only came to use thanks to AT&T, Bell Labs and UNIX.

exactly, and so far rust is being pushed by evangelists and pseudo-journalists

rust wants to penetrate the industry by-proxy rather than with interesting tech/projects

Mozilla gave up rewriting firefox in rust

Embark gave up writing their new game engine in rust

Post reply on HN