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Time to end the war on drugs

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Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#11

Post by swombat »

TheAmazingIdiot wrote: post #5

One has to remember that Portugal did not completely legalize drugs. Possession of small amounts and usage were legalized. Dealing is still a big crime there, due to the citizens of Portugal not wanting to be akin the worlds drug den. The different viewpoint of legalizing usage was that it is a medical problem, and not a evil crime. Even that said, Portugal also made their problems less severe by bringing them out in…

Hey, sorry I downvoted you when the post was just "O".

The lack of a socialised healthcare system is actually a boon in this case, since the state is basically getting rid of a large cost (funding the police work on the war on drugs) without creating another cost (since patients then have to pay for themselves). Isn't it?

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#12

Post by swombat »

tomjen3 wrote: post #9
swombat wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) This is not something that "sane, enterprising individuals" can reasonably achieve. 2) Silver bullet solutions? Yeah, I believe in them. And Santa, too.

Swombat you have a brand here -- don't throw it away with low quality comments. It is not very difficult to convince Monsanto if they can make more money in some other way -- it may not be something that can be solved by gcc, but when has raw computer programming talent ever been the deciding factor for a computer programmer?

I don't see it as a low quality comment.

If it's not very difficult to convince Monsanto of this, then please do it right away, if it has the benefit of ending the war on drugs. If you can't be bothered to do it yourself, then pray tell us the 5 easy steps to convincing Monsanto to start exploiting Marijuana and therefore decriminalise all drugs.

Unless you think, as I do, that the above is a fantasy and has no practical value as a line of action.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#13

Post by swombat »

geden wrote: post #10
swombat wrote: post #2

Even coming from a respectable industry leader like Richard Branson, this will almost certainly be ignored. Here's an interesting question: what would end the war on drugs? Is it something that can be made to happen by sane, enterprising individuals?

It's simply a matter of education, access to knowledge. It's a slow process. Organised religion fizzled away when faced with widespread access to the facts (though two world wars surely helped).

Portugal is hardly the beacon of education and knowledge of the world, and yet they managed it. This is not a solution, it's giving up and saying "let's wait for it to happen by itself".

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#14

Post by TheAmazingIdiot »

swah wrote: post #8

I don't understand how a world where making/selling something is a crime but consuming is not could work.

The idea has very much to do with different viewpoints.

Portugal wanted to remove punishments from drug users because they viewed it as a medical problem. However Portugal did not want to make a full legalization for then you end up with drug dens, the situation you try to avoid.

The only logical solution is to legalize usage and small possesion as a medical excuse. Then you ban larger possession and dealing.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#16

Post by throwaway88 »

swombat wrote: post #11
TheAmazingIdiot wrote: post #5

One has to remember that Portugal did not completely legalize drugs. Possession of small amounts and usage were legalized. Dealing is still a big crime there, due to the citizens of Portugal not wanting to be akin the worlds drug den. The different viewpoint of legalizing usage was that it is a medical problem, and not a evil crime. Even that said, Portugal also made their problems less severe by bringing them out in…

Hey, sorry I downvoted you when the post was just "O". The lack of a socialised healthcare system is actually a boon in this case, since the state is basically getting rid of a large cost (funding the police work on the war on drugs) without creating another cost (since patients then have to pay for themselves). Isn't it?

The US has so many problems - high gun ownership, no socialized health care, still has corporal punishment, etc etc. Not sure legalizing drugs would be a good idea until some of the other problems are addressed first.

How can we get Americans to put their guns away?

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#17

Post by jcfrei »

the fact that the US (and many other countries) still pursue a war on drugs is to me a display of a fundamental flaw in politics. even though every sane person has to acknowledge that legalizing drugs in part is more effective than enforcing more rigid controls, only very few politicians would support such a motion. mostly because they become victim to a more conservative rhetoric and thus will be less likely reelected.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#18

Post by darklajid »

swah wrote: post #8

I don't understand how a world where making/selling something is a crime but consuming is not could work.

As far as I'm informed (read: I cannot back this up with legalese), this is the case in Germany as well, albeit limited to soft stuff/marijuana:

- You are not allowed to buy it

- You are not allowed to sell it

- You can have a small amount of it in your possession, "for personal use" (declared as a maximum amount per substance, so that 'users' aren't in the same category as 'dealers' here)

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#19

Post by dvanduzer »

TheAmazingIdiot wrote: post #5

One has to remember that Portugal did not completely legalize drugs. Possession of small amounts and usage were legalized. Dealing is still a big crime there, due to the citizens of Portugal not wanting to be akin the worlds drug den. The different viewpoint of legalizing usage was that it is a medical problem, and not a evil crime. Even that said, Portugal also made their problems less severe by bringing them out in…

The bureaucratic issues aside, it does seem, on the surface, absurd that we can't just view the money spent fighting the War on Drugs as part of a big bucket that we could instead just pour all over medical treatment.

Tossing the bureaucratic issues aside seems the larger problem.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#20

Post by tokenadult »

A friend shared this link on Facebook, and I read through the article. I was very interested to note that Richard Branson bases much of his argument on the reduction in drug use in Portugal since the policy change decriminalizing possession of small amounts of drugs for personal use and referring users to medical treatment. Is this the societal consensus in other countries? Are most advocates of ending "the war on drugs" trying to achieve reduced use? Is the worldwide experience (Branson also refers to the Netherlands and to the European Union generally) that fewer criminal penalties for drug use results in consistently lower overall use in the general population? How many drug legalization campaigns around the world make this the major point of the campaign, to reduce use of the drugs that are now illegal?
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