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Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

iranintl.com

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Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#11

Post by kevinmrose »

greggarious wrote: post #6
themitigating wrote: post #2

It's so weird to me how rare it is that the leaders of countries are executed by the population and to even call for that upsets people regardless of what their reign is like. There's almost no incentive to be a good leader since if it all falls apart you'll just end up living luxuriously in another country. Why is there such a high value placed on human life that ignores the impact that person had upon the world? Fe…

Someone told me in a bar on K Street the thing Vladimir Putin fears most is being hung from a gas station like Mussolinu, and I suspect that goes for all totalitarians. What scares me is I've met people like that at home in the USA. There is a quote by a KGB defector which I lost the cite for. "There is nowhere to defect to." They can live in luxury, but you cannot buy respect. Folks are allowed to show you, in small…

Here's the KGB defector's interview you're talking about, his name was Yuri Bezmenov.

https://youtu.be/yErKTVdETpw?t=4624

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#12

Post by tokai »

themitigating wrote: post #2

It's so weird to me how rare it is that the leaders of countries are executed by the population and to even call for that upsets people regardless of what their reign is like. There's almost no incentive to be a good leader since if it all falls apart you'll just end up living luxuriously in another country. Why is there such a high value placed on human life that ignores the impact that person had upon the world? Fe…

>to even call for that upsets people regardless of what their reign is like.

Its was so weird when Gaddafi was killed. He was a murderous villain and the west had directly made sure that his regime would fall or even outright tried to kill him with bombings. But when some of his so-called subjects got their hands on him and finished the job it was much maligned in the press. For some reason the more power you have the less people feel like you should experience consequences.

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#13

Post by EGreg »

greggarious wrote: post #6
themitigating wrote: post #2

It's so weird to me how rare it is that the leaders of countries are executed by the population and to even call for that upsets people regardless of what their reign is like. There's almost no incentive to be a good leader since if it all falls apart you'll just end up living luxuriously in another country. Why is there such a high value placed on human life that ignores the impact that person had upon the world? Fe…

Someone told me in a bar on K Street the thing Vladimir Putin fears most is being hung from a gas station like Mussolinu, and I suspect that goes for all totalitarians. What scares me is I've met people like that at home in the USA. There is a quote by a KGB defector which I lost the cite for. "There is nowhere to defect to." They can live in luxury, but you cannot buy respect. Folks are allowed to show you, in small…

I think the only Russian leader who ever left and lived abroad was Gorbachev.

Even Navalny came back to face the music, and he wasnt even president (yet?)

I do not believe they are self serving at the expense of their country and will live in a bunker while their countrymen are bombed. They all thought and think they were doing the right thing for their country. Even Yeltsin, when he did in 1993 what essentially the Peruvian guy is doing now — trying to dissolve parliament in a constitutional crisis, in order to perpetuate the “shock therapy” of privatizing everything to oligarchs while people started to starve.

I an sure even Stalin thought he was modernizing the country, just as Mao later did, while people were starving.

The problem isn’t that they are self serving kleptocrats. Stalin owned one suit I think, and personally was poor.

Just because they love their country and think they’re helping it, doesn’t make it true that they’re helping people though. I am sure George W Bush loved USA and wanted the best for it when he invaded Iraq. As libertarians we question the basic “patriotic common wisdom” of how things are set up in the first place.

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#14

Post by greggarious »

keewee7 wrote: post #10
greggarious wrote: post #3

Huh? Is... Venezuela... particularly Islamic? Maybe Kosovo would be a better cultural fit.

Kosovo-Albanians (and Ukrainians) are probably the most pro-American people in the world right now. Just because Kosovo is Muslim-majority does not mean they're friendly to the Iranian regime.

I'm sorry, I wasn't saying they wanted them. I was just saying it's weird to me if someone claims to want an Islamic Republic to move to a secular place rather than, say, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, or the UAE.

Sorry -- I didn't mean to insult folks from Kosovo or Albania.

(I'm not a nationalist, I just utilize the existing neoliberal laws and norms to move us to something more respectful of personal autonomy while respecting basic human rights, but I've noticed how lack of shared language can cause issues when everything else is put aside)

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#15

Post by greggarious »

the_only_law wrote: post #4
greggarious wrote: post #3

Huh? Is... Venezuela... particularly Islamic? Maybe Kosovo would be a better cultural fit.

If I was an Iranian trying to flee a regime change, I’d probably pick the western-hostile Venezuela over the NATO friendly Kosovo.

I'll have to read up, the few folks I met from there weren't rude to me.

(I'm a big fan of personal diplomacy, in the sense I used to loudly joke I might one day become a test case for the Logan Act :-))

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#16

Post by luckylion »

saint_fiasco wrote: post #9
themitigating wrote: post #2

It's so weird to me how rare it is that the leaders of countries are executed by the population and to even call for that upsets people regardless of what their reign is like. There's almost no incentive to be a good leader since if it all falls apart you'll just end up living luxuriously in another country. Why is there such a high value placed on human life that ignores the impact that person had upon the world? Fe…

The idea is that if the leader can live luxuriously in another country, they have an incentive to stop being a bad leader and retire in luxury already. If bad leaders got executed, then the incentive for bad leaders would be to stay in power no matter the cost. The reason dictatorships turn murderous when they lose popularity is that the dictator knows they will be killed if the opposition wins, so they have no choic…

> The idea is that if the leader can live luxuriously in another country, they have an incentive to stop being a bad leader and retire in luxury already.

That sounds plausible, but does it actually happen? I mean, tyrants have certainly fled the country to live somewhere else and retire their ambitions, but have they ever done so peacefully?

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#17

Post by citilife »

greggarious wrote: post #6
themitigating wrote: post #2

It's so weird to me how rare it is that the leaders of countries are executed by the population and to even call for that upsets people regardless of what their reign is like. There's almost no incentive to be a good leader since if it all falls apart you'll just end up living luxuriously in another country. Why is there such a high value placed on human life that ignores the impact that person had upon the world? Fe…

Someone told me in a bar on K Street the thing Vladimir Putin fears most is being hung from a gas station like Mussolinu, and I suspect that goes for all totalitarians. What scares me is I've met people like that at home in the USA. There is a quote by a KGB defector which I lost the cite for. "There is nowhere to defect to." They can live in luxury, but you cannot buy respect. Folks are allowed to show you, in small…

> Someone told me in a bar on K Street the thing Vladimir Putin fears most is being hung from a gas station like Mussolinu, and I suspect that goes for all totalitarians.

Putin has openly said he despises what the west did to Gaddafi and believes thats what they want for him. He not only fears it, but but said he fears for his civilization (Russia).

The west makes it pretty easy to be feareful - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/clinton-on-qaddafi-we-came-we-s...

Putin asked what right the west had to assassinate Gaddafi without a trial and destroy all the countries infrastructure

https://www.the-sun.com/news/2268833/vladimir-putin-killed-g...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-putin-libya-idUSTR...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/26/libya-us-briti...

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#18

Post by throwaway290 »

EGreg wrote: post #13
greggarious wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone told me in a bar on K Street the thing Vladimir Putin fears most is being hung from a gas station like Mussolinu, and I suspect that goes for all totalitarians. What scares me is I've met people like that at home in the USA. There is a quote by a KGB defector which I lost the cite for. "There is nowhere to defect to." They can live in luxury, but you cannot buy respect. Folks are allowed to show you, in small…

I think the only Russian leader who ever left and lived abroad was Gorbachev. Even Navalny came back to face the music, and he wasnt even president (yet?) I do not believe they are self serving at the expense of their country and will live in a bunker while their countrymen are bombed. They all thought and think they were doing the right thing for their country. Even Yeltsin, when he did in 1993 what essentially the…

Hordes of them around the revolution. After there was never a serious change of power.

Re: Iranian Officials Asking Venezuela for Asylum in Case of Regime Change

#19

Post by toomuchtodo »

saint_fiasco wrote: post #9
themitigating wrote: post #2

It's so weird to me how rare it is that the leaders of countries are executed by the population and to even call for that upsets people regardless of what their reign is like. There's almost no incentive to be a good leader since if it all falls apart you'll just end up living luxuriously in another country. Why is there such a high value placed on human life that ignores the impact that person had upon the world? Fe…

The idea is that if the leader can live luxuriously in another country, they have an incentive to stop being a bad leader and retire in luxury already. If bad leaders got executed, then the incentive for bad leaders would be to stay in power no matter the cost. The reason dictatorships turn murderous when they lose popularity is that the dictator knows they will be killed if the opposition wins, so they have no choic…

Can’t new regimes simply send someone to execute the retired deposed leader(s)?
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