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Tell HN: IPv6-only still pretty much unusable

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Re: Tell HN: IPv6-only still pretty much unusable

#11
This problem led us to self-hosting Gitlab four years ago, I can't believe it's still an issue in 2022.

It's appalling that a "developer product" like Github remains such a blocker to IPv6 adoption, especially for highly Github-reliant communities like the Golang ecosystem.

Launch an IPv6-only VM and try to build a mainstream Go project.

Re: Tell HN: IPv6-only still pretty much unusable

#12
post #10
post #3

Hetzner should provide free CGNAT IPv4 Addresses (IPv4 Gateway) for IPv6-Only VMs

Communal ipv4 is very problematic for certain services due to bad neighbors causing it to be blacklisted.

Not for hosting services, but for things like accessing Github.

Re: Tell HN: IPv6-only still pretty much unusable

#14
Having "grown up" with IPv4, I'm slow to learn everything necessary to set up an IPv6 infrastructure. The times I did look into it, IPv6 seemed so much more complicated than IPv4, but maybe that's just because I'm just not familiar with it.

Are there any good resources on setting up IPv6 support from first principles?

I still get confused as to the "right" way to set up internal networks for IPv6, especially when DHCPv6 isn't universally supported (I'm looking at you Android).

Re: Tell HN: IPv6-only still pretty much unusable

#15
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post #4

The biggest problem remains cloud and CDN companies with poor to nonexistent IPv6 support. Most ISPs, especially on mobile, have it now or are adding it very soon. I've wondered whether some might be dragging their feet because they see an advantage in IP address scarcity to sell cloud gateways, CDNs, and other middle box type services. But the most likely explanation remains that not enough customers are asking for…

> Most ISPs, especially on mobile, have it now or are adding it very soon. Except Charter/Spectrum in the US.

Maybe it's because we're in the former Time Warner Cable/Road Runner part of Spectrum's territory, but we've had IPv6 for years now.

Re: Tell HN: IPv6-only still pretty much unusable

#16
post #12
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communal ipv4 is very problematic for certain services due to bad neighbors causing it to be blacklisted.

Not for hosting services, but for things like accessing Github.

That's GP's point. Service providers will block the IPs of abusive clients. If those clients are your cg-nat neighbours, you're blocked with them.

Re: Tell HN: IPv6-only still pretty much unusable

#17
post #3

Hetzner should provide free CGNAT IPv4 Addresses (IPv4 Gateway) for IPv6-Only VMs

A whole lot of ISPs are doing CGNAT for IPv4 now, mostly in Asia. Starlink does it. It's mostly OK but has a lot of drawbacks, particularly IP-based geolocation. (Starlink does not support IPv6 although they seem to be rolling it out this month.)

Re: Tell HN: IPv6-only still pretty much unusable

#18
> Our Hosting provider, Hetzner, has recently started charging for public IPv4 addresses

Well actually, they were charging for IPv4 addresses for a while, but just changed pricing... to outrageous pricing. The setup fees are actually insane!

And yeah IPv6-only is quite a terrible experience, I tried out a few days ago. I suggest just using nat64.net if you want to access IPv4 sites over IPv6.

One quite funny thing, I recently asked my ISP if they were ever going to add IPv6, they told me no, there's "not enough demand"... well there's "not enough demand" because there's barely any IPv6 websites, and then websites refuse to add support for IPv6 because... you guessed it, "not enough demand".

Re: Tell HN: IPv6-only still pretty much unusable

#19
Unfortunately this is true. I've been running IPv4/IPv6 dual stack since 2014 for most of my infrastructure and since 2016 for all of it. The company I work for now is a major AWS customer, and we managed to pressure them into enabling IPv6 for Global Accelerator, and have just recently launched full IPv4/IPv6 dual stack for our endpoints... in 2022.

I think that the primary root cause of this is economics, if we're being perfectly blunt. The countries/regions of the world that got most of the IPv4 address space are also the places where most of the money is, so businesses, especially businesses serving businesses, are not heavily driven to support IPv6 other than as a "checkbox", because their customers all have IPv4 and are not asking for it. Meanwhile in APJC/BRIC IPv6 is the dominant mode of connectivity, and many major businesses are IPv6 only or IPv6 primary w/ IPv4 CGNAT. When you enter into this market, IPv6 quickly becomes a requirement, however in EU/NA, it's just not required.

I am seeing this shift though, because of mobile-first consumer-oriented businesses. Globally, pretty much all mobile providers issue only IPv6 addresses that are globally routed to their subscriber devices and utilize CGNAT to get IPv4 connectivity. This is true even in North America. The problem is that CGNAT is /really/ good as far as "working", so from the perspective of endpoints they communicate with, it may not be obvious that IPv6 would actually benefit them. For mobile applications, IPv6 has a significant performance advantage because it skips CGNAT, and so at least in that space businesses are doing more to support it directly.

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