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Golden Ratio for Readable Web Typography

pearsonified.com

11–20 of 35 posts

Re: Golden Ratio for Readable Web Typography

#11

As far as I can tell, the following assertion (which is the basis for the rest of the math) is something we are to take on faith. How was it determined that this is the optimal ratio? That seems to me the most important question here, yet it is mentioned almost as an aside. """In the equation above, the optimal line height is produced when h equals the golden ratio (φ). """

There’s no empirical basis for the mystical claims about the golden ratio, and most of the examples from ancient buildings, famous artworks, attractive people’s faces, and so on are a result of selecting examples which match the pattern while ignoring those which don’t – yay numerology!

It just happens to be a fairly reasonable ratio for a lot of purposes (and happens to be the ratio ϕ = a/b such that ϕ = a/b = (a + b)/a), and sometimes therefore an easy rule-of-thumb. Use it or don’t use it. You won’t be missing some secret of the universe.

Re: Golden Ratio for Readable Web Typography

#12

As far as I can tell, the following assertion (which is the basis for the rest of the math) is something we are to take on faith. How was it determined that this is the optimal ratio? That seems to me the most important question here, yet it is mentioned almost as an aside. """In the equation above, the optimal line height is produced when h equals the golden ratio (φ). """

There’s no empirical basis for the mystical claims about the golden ratio, and most of the examples from ancient buildings, famous artworks, attractive people’s faces, and so on are a result of selecting examples which match the pattern while ignoring those which don’t – yay numerology! It just happens to be a fairly reasonable ratio for a lot of purposes (and happens to be the ratio ϕ = a / b such that ϕ = a / b = (…

[deleted]

Re: Golden Ratio for Readable Web Typography

#13
post #10

I love the golden ratio. It has many applications in design. In fact, right now I’m writing a blog post about using it to cheaply generate non-repeating sequences of distinct colors.[0] And I have some background in typography; I’m conversant with things like Tschichold’s golden section. But this is ridiculous. It’s making very broad claims without evidence. If it cited studies or provided compelling side-by-side com…

I agree with you. Yet, I am passing this on to my company's designers, if for no other reason than to convince them to stop filling 600px of space with little 12px text.

The failure to validate the ratio as "optimal" is a very valid criticism, but at the very least, what they're claiming as "optimal" is pretty darn good IMO.

Re: Golden Ratio for Readable Web Typography

#14
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no empirical basis for the mystical claims about the golden ratio, and most of the examples from ancient buildings, famous artworks, attractive people’s faces, and so on are a result of selecting examples which match the pattern while ignoring those which don’t – yay numerology! It just happens to be a fairly reasonable ratio for a lot of purposes (and happens to be the ratio ϕ = a / b such that ϕ = a / b = (…

[deleted]

Not for the ones typically cited, such as Leonardo’s work, or the Parthenon, they didn’t. Some artists certainly did. Le Corbusier (architect) based a lot of his designs on it, for example, as did Jan Tschichold (typographer).

Anyway, they weren’t working from anything empirical, but from their own mystical preferences.

Re: Golden Ratio for Readable Web Typography

#16

It's difficult to trust an article on typography whose first paragraph ends with an orphan.

Short of rewriting the copy (which they could have done, of course), dealing with orphans on the web is kind of impossible. It's a valid point, but I wouldn't let that stop you from taking the rest of the article at face value.

Re: Golden Ratio for Readable Web Typography

#17
Personally, I've found that font size (in pixels) plus 10 pixels is usually a good place to start for line height, and I've read anywhere from 65 to 90 characters per line for optimal reading. There have are actual scientific studies out there on the concept of line length and readability, but I don't have any immediately available.

[Edit] On the article itself: I'm no mathlete, but that whole thing smells like bullshit. I'm sure I (or, rather, someone good at math) could pick a number at random (pi, 42, etc) and come up with a formula to generate the same numbers. I'm not sure "right because the Golden Ratio" is a valid conclusion.

Re: Golden Ratio for Readable Web Typography

#18
post #13
post #10

I love the golden ratio. It has many applications in design. In fact, right now I’m writing a blog post about using it to cheaply generate non-repeating sequences of distinct colors.[0] And I have some background in typography; I’m conversant with things like Tschichold’s golden section. But this is ridiculous. It’s making very broad claims without evidence. If it cited studies or provided compelling side-by-side com…

I agree with you. Yet, I am passing this on to my company's designers, if for no other reason than to convince them to stop filling 600px of space with little 12px text. The failure to validate the ratio as "optimal" is a very valid criticism, but at the very least, what they're claiming as "optimal" is pretty darn good IMO.

For the past year, I've told people that size 14, and most cases size 16, is the new size 12.

Yet, some designers, especially designers outside the design space (designers you find in places like insurance companies) still crush size 12 fonts into large spaces.

Drives me crazy. Not only is it hard to read, it's essentially invisible on monitors with high resolutions.

Re: Golden Ratio for Readable Web Typography

#19

I thought that design (blindly) based on Golden Ratio and the Fibonacci-Series was frowned upon here on HN http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/pseudo/fibonacc.htm

Blindly?

I wouldn't say that this article is blindly based on the golden ratio.

It has merit.

But while on the subject of frowned upon...

Do you know what else was frowned up at one point?

The Sun being the center of our solar system.

Just because it's frowned upon doesn't mean it's not true :-P

Re: Golden Ratio for Readable Web Typography

#20
post #10

I love the golden ratio. It has many applications in design. In fact, right now I’m writing a blog post about using it to cheaply generate non-repeating sequences of distinct colors.[0] And I have some background in typography; I’m conversant with things like Tschichold’s golden section. But this is ridiculous. It’s making very broad claims without evidence. If it cited studies or provided compelling side-by-side com…

Everyone seems to be taking this article as gospel, but that is not the intent at all.

It is an exploration into the idea of basing typographical proportions on the golden ratio; it is NOT saying that the results are the only (or even the best!) way to set type.

Personally, I found the results to be compelling—paragraphs set with the Golden Ratio Typography Calculator look good to my eye (and in fact, trying to understand why certain text looks good and other text looks bad is the reason why I started this research in the first place).

In the comments of the article, I've expounded upon some of the questions posed here, and I hope you'll take the time to explore those if you're so inclined.

For example, some of you have deftly pointed out the lack of clear support for the w = l^2 relationship. I'm going to cover my reasoning behind this in a future post, but I didn't want a heavy focus on mathematics to take away from the impact of the article.

In the meantime, check out the first image on this page (http://dropshado.ws/post/12971305087/webkit-zoomed-out-font-...); the ends of each line of text combine to form a classic x^2 curve. This supports the claim that w = l^2 (but it does not prove it true, obviously).

Most people simply won't read (or even be able to follow) a barrage of mathematical reasoning, modeling, and graphs. That's why I left most of those things out of this article. However, these things are the hallmarks of the research I've done thus far.

Finally, there is a huge benefit to this approach to typography that is worth expounding upon here.

By establishing a mathematical basis to relate typographical variables, you can predict and control type with algorithms instead of relying upon arbitrary selection from designers.

This opens up the doors for sophisticated tools (like the Golden Ratio Typography Calculator) or even cooler stuff, like design controls that allow users to experiment with different fonts/sizes while adjusting all typographical and spatial values based on the resulting line height of the primary text (this is the vertical baseline grid on steroids).

For me, the bottom line is this: Designers rely on arbitrary selection for things like line heights and line widths, and I am convinced there's a better way to go about this.

Research like this is only the tip of the iceberg, obviously, but at the very least, I will continue to ask the tough questions and to challenge the baseless status quo.

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